KCK Executive Council co-chair Besê Hozat spoke about the isolation imposed on Abdullah Öcalan.

The first part of the interview can be read here

We would like to address the complete absence of communication with the leader of the Kurdish people, Abdullah Öcalan. Also, I would like to talk with you about the global campaign for the physical freedom of Abdullah Ocalan, which you have evaluated in several broad formats. In particular, what should be the approach and participation in this campaign now?

As you pointed out, there is no news or information from Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan]. There is a systematic system of torture and isolation. He was not allowed to conduct any meetings with his lawyers during those years. From 2013 until 2015, there were some meetings with delegations of the HDP. Through those, the public, our people, and we have become more informed about the situation of Rêber Apo and the policies implemented in Imrali. However, this does not mean that the isolation has been broken or overcome and that the conditions of health, safety, and freedom of Rêber Apo have been ensured. In fact, 26 years of imprisonment is itself a system of isolation and torture. For more than 41 months, there has not been any news from Rêber Apo in any way. There is an absolute lack of communication. Actually, it is not 41 months, but more. When we talk about 41 months, we are referring to the last phone call that Rêber Apo had with Ömer and Mehmet Öcalan in March 2021. But that wasn’t a meeting either. The phone call did not provide any information about Rêber Apo’s state of health, nor did it tell us anything else about the current conditions on Imrali. Nothing was discussed in that call. It just lasted one or two minutes. Anyway, Rêber Apo also criticized that kind of exchange. “You are being played,” he said. “My lawyers should meet with me.” He pointed out that it is his right to meet with his lawyers. Nothing much could be understood from that call, and when Rêber Apo took a stance against this form of exchange, the state intervened and cut off the call. Therefore, rather than these 41 months, we can say that there has been an total lack of communication since June 12, 2019.

From May 2 to June 12, the lawyers had three meetings with Rêber Apo, and there were also several family meetings, but since then there has been no information. Also, through those meetings, we learned little about the situation of Rêber Apo, the conditions in Imrali, and the security and health conditions. But after that, an absolute lack of communication and isolation continued. In other words, there has been no communication with Rêber Apo since June 12, 2019. There is no information about what the general situation is in Imrali, and there is also no information about what the health and security situation of the fellow prisoners is. Now, while this is the reality, AKP officials are trying to deceive the people so that Rêber Apo can meet with his family whenever he wants. They say that he would be allowed to meet his family, but that it would be the movement that would prevent those meetings from taking place. They spread this kind of propaganda. They try to create a picture like Rêber Apo would want to find a solution, but the movement would prevent it. It is understood that they are waging a very intense special war and developing perceptional operations. The more the enemy fails to provide an explanation for the current isolation, the more it gets stuck because of the social and public reactions and the attitudes and reactions expressed by many international, leftist, socialist, libertarian, and democratic circles. It cannot explain this criminal situation. Because right now the Turkish state is committing a crime against the law, a crime against humanity. It has completely abolished and violated both its own and international law. The situation in Imrali right now is a crime against humanity, no matter how you look at it. In order to cover up this crime, in order to create a different perception, and in order to somehow explain what they cannot explain, they are lying. This is how they try to deceive and fool these groups. This reveals the gravity of the situation the Turkish state is in.

Recently, there was a United Nations session. This situation of isolation and an absolute lack of communication was also put on the agenda there. Many questions were asked of the Turkish delegation, and they could not explain the situation. They did not even dare to name it as what it is: isolation. Why are they applying these disciplinary penalties that they name as reasons why Rêber Apo cannot conduct a meeting? What disciplinary offense can be committed by a person who is in absolute isolation? This is a policy. The global campaign for the freedom of Rêber Apo has brought about very important results and put the Turkish state in a difficult situation. The Turkish state is so stuck that it does not know how to explain and legitimize this crime against humanity. It is inventing a thousand and one covers for it. They lie and try to deceive everyone. No one is fooled by this.

There is going to be a meeting of the Committee of Ministers (CM) of the Council of Europe (CoE) in September. The so-called ‘Right to Hope’ is going to be on the agenda. The lawyers from the Asrin Law Office were evaluating the upcoming meeting and made it clear that they were preparing for this meeting to raise important demands there. We are following these developments closely. The CoE and the CM are, in fact, also partners in this crime of isolation. The European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CPT) and the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) are accomplices to this crime committed by the Turkish state. They are the forces that established the Imrali system, this system of isolation, torture, and genocide. And they have been watching this for years and remained silent about the torture and genocide policies of the Turkish state. Now, these forces need to take a serious change of stance. These forces should no longer be partners in this genocidal crime, this crime against humanity. Turkey does not abide by any international convention or law. Therefore, international institutions are also responsible for this. First and foremost, the CoE, the CPT, the CM, and all the other institutions and mechanisms affiliated with the CoE. The CoE is the main culprit in the current situation. It must put an end to this criminal situation. It should not be a partner in this. Instead, it must put forward an approach and policy in accordance with law, justice, human values, and morality. This is important; this system of torture and isolation must end.

There has been a significant legal struggle as well. The fact that we can discuss this today is the result of a broad struggle. It is the result of the global freedom campaign. Just recently, 69 Nobel Prize winners have expressed their support for the struggle for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo and against the Imrali system of torture and isolation. They wrote letters to many places and decisive institutions. The CM and the CoE are just two of them. As far as we observed, they also wrote a letter to Erdoğan and many other institutions and international organizations. This is an extremely valuable approach. This kind of work needs to continue. For 26 years, Rêber Apo has been resisting in Imrali in the name of human values. He is resisting for the freedom and equality of peoples, for democracy, for the freedom of women, and for the freedom of all oppressed identities. Therefore, he represents the conscience of humanity and the values of humanity. Today, everyone in the world who seeks justice, freedom, equality, and truth is defended by Rêber Apo’s resistance. The freedom of Rêber Apo is the freedom of all of us. It is the freedom of all peoples. It is not only the freedom of Kurds; it is the freedom of humanity. In this respect, we need to continue this struggle more strongly; we need to further spread Rêber Apo’s paradigm. This work is very valuable.

The Middle East pillar of these efforts is too weak. There are also some gaps when it comes to the efforts made in Europe, worldwide and in Asia. But especially in the Middle East, the importance of these efforts is now being understood much more. It is necessary to carry Rêber Apo’s ideas, projects, perspectives, and paradigm to all societies and peoples of the Middle East and to all of their intellectuals, artists, democratic groups, women’s movements, youth movements, and democratic circles. Also, it is needed to bring all these people together through the paradigm of Rêber Apo, because right now the center of the 3rd World War is the Middle East. The Middle Eastern society is crying blood. Violence, war, massacres, and genocides are taking place everywhere. Right now, Kurdistan is the center of genocide. The Turkish state is implementing a terrible genocidal policy against the Kurds, while Israel is implementing a terrible genocidal policy against the Palestinians. Tens of thousands of Palestinians have been massacred by the Israeli army. The other day, they bombarded a school, and over a hundred people were massacred. Genocides are being practiced, and gradually, this 3rd World War is intensifying and spreading, centered on Kurdistan, Palestine, and the Middle East as a whole. The Turkish state is doing its best to spread this war even further. Likewise, Israel is also deepening this war with its current genocide policies. Rêber Apo’s projects, the paradigm of the Democratic Nation, and the system of Democratic Confederalism are the most fundamental concepts to form a solution to all the problems faced in the Middle East. As Middle Eastern society becomes acquainted with these ideas and as Middle Eastern intellectuals and other circles, groups, and movements in the region who are in search of freedom, equality, justice, and democracy become acquainted with these ideas, I believe that a very strong democracy movement and struggle for democracy will develop in the Middle East. The Kurds and their freedom movement have been pioneering this for nearly 50 years. There is a serious awareness in this regard.

But if we manage to develop this more strongly on the basis of spreading the paradigm and ideas of Rêber Apo to the region, this will bring the democratic revolution in the Middle East closer, and this situation in which dozens, maybe even hundreds, of peoples are suffering under chaos, war, and massacres, where hundreds of thousands are losing their lives, will come to an end. It is necessary to particularly develop the struggle within the campaign for the freedom of Rêber Apo in the Middle East very strongly. Again, the women’s movement must also play a very strong role in the campaign. Until now, of course, women and young people have led the movement to a great extent. They have played a crucial role, especially in social mobilizations. The women’s movement, especially the women’s movement through Jineolojî, has made significant labor, effort, and struggle in carrying the paradigm of Rêber Apo. However, we see that the ideas developed by Rêber Apo regarding women’s freedom have the greatest impact on the world today.

In the history of mankind, there have been many movements and groups of people who have pondered, thought, theorized, and practically fought for women’s liberation, just as Rêber Apo, and, of course, there have been many female leaders. Various socialist leaders have also made very important determinations and evaluations on the subject of women and have engaged in an important intellectual effort on this issue. However, no one has been able to concentrate and deepen on women’s liberation as deeply as Rêber Apo, to engage in such a deep intellectual, theoretical, ideological, philosophical, systematic, and intellectual level, and to demonstrate the practical power and application of this. This is a fact. If we manage to carry the thoughts, labor, effort, and struggle developed by Rêber Apo on women’s freedom, I strongly believe that we are able to achieve crucial results. The Kurdish freedom movement will carry out this struggle together with the women’s movement. Therefore, we definitely need to wage a stronger struggle. If we can carry out a stronger multidimensional struggle, both in terms of spreading the paradigm, the social struggle, particularly the struggle to be waged by the women’s movement, and the legal struggle, we can definitely physically liberate Rêber Apo in a short time, and the global campaign will be successful. The current level of the campaign and the results it has produced herald this to us.