In the second part of this in-depth interview, Duran Kalkan, member of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the significance of democratic confederalism as well as the women’s revolution that is taking place in Kurdistan under the leadership of the PKK and PAJK.

The first part of the interview can be read here.

What is the significance of democratic confederalism and the solution model of the democratic nation in a territory characterized by violence, conflict and war such as the Middle East? Why is this model seemingly so vital for different peoples, beliefs and even marginalized communities?

The Middle East, Kurdistan in particular, is a historically multilingual, multicultural, multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-sectarian territory. It is an area where many different societies are intertwined with each other, where many different social realities have developed alongside each other and have been shaped over a long historical process. It is the area where sociality and natural society have developed. It is also the area where power and state structures have developed and taken shape and ruled for the longest time. What do democratic confederalism and democratic nation mean in such an area? It means the free self-organization of all identities and their free participation in the unity of the democratic nation, in the framework of democratic confederalism. Within this unity, they can freely live in their own uniqueness. All identities, religious identities, national identities, social identities, see their uniqueness in the freedom of the others in the democratic nation model, under democratic confederalism. They see their existence in the existence of the other. They see their life in the life of the other. However, religious, nationalist, sexist, ideological patterns, and liberalism express exactly the opposite. It is this thinking that to ensure one’s own existence, the destruction of others is needed, that to ensure one’s own freedom means the enslavement of others. As an example, Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] evaluated Israel, which is currently launching heavy attacks. It is trying to ensure its existence by destroying those around it. It follows a mentality that by enslaving those around it, the Jews will be free. As Rêber Apo said, this is impossible.

By destroying others, the Jews cannot exist and be free. No one can. But all these mentality patterns and currents of thought see their own future in marginalizing, destroying, oppressing, and enslaving others and accept and foresee this as the truth. This is what is turning the Middle East into a bloodbath. So many religious and sectarian divisions, so many ethnic divisions, so many social divisions, and contradictions; if they all clash with each other, a deadlock emerges. The democratic nation, democratic confederalism, is a movement to set an end to this. It is a movement to eliminate the bloodbath, these contradictions and conflicts. And it does so through a change in mentality, through an important revolution of mentality. It means the elimination of the understanding that ‘others must disappear, everything must be mine’. It envisions a democratic, socialist, sharing, and communal life. It is not about saying, “Let me live!” but about saying, “Let everyone live!”. It is about saying, “For me to be free, everyone else must be free!” It envisages developing and ensuring freedom under democratic politics.

As the mentality and the concepts of democratic nation and democratic confederalism developed by Rêber Apo on the basis of the new paradigm are carried forward, they have a great impact on societies and the various ethnic structures in the region and in the world and thereby become a center of attraction. It becomes a way out, a way of salvation for everyone. The hegemonic system is hostile; they attack, but the societies see it as a way out. In the Middle East, states are preventing the spread of these ideas, but in different suitable areas of the world, they find the opportunity to spread more and to be more influential. If these opportunities are utilized, they will lead to very rapid developments. A new life, a new order of relations, a new existence for humanity. It starts a new era, a new history. Against the 5,000-year-old male-dominated mentality and system of power and the state, and against the 500-year-old male-dominated mentality and system of capitalist modernity, it envisages a new era of life, a new historical process that is compatible with natural society, that makes peace with nature, and that envisions humanity living freely and fraternally in happiness. It is clearly seen that it has already led to important developments and will lead to more.

A women’s revolution is taking place in Kurdistan under the leadership of the PKK and PAJK and based on the philosophy and efforts of Rêber Apo. How did this revolutionary process develop, and what changes did it bring about within society? What are the reasons for the women’s liberation struggle being constantly and deliberately targeted by the states?

Historically, these issues have been evaluated and discussed. The PKK’s new paradigm, the struggle that is developing in Kurdistan under the leadership of the new PKK, is seen, discussed, and evaluated primarily on the basis of the philosophy of women’s liberation, within the framework of defining and developing the women’s liberation revolution. This is a current situation.

In order to be able to assess how it came to this point, it is necessary to examine Kurdish society historically. On the basis of which characteristics was a society that could survive and sustain itself in the midst of so much fighting in Mesopotamia, be shaped? There are historical realities for this, and there are many social dimensions that need to be taken into consideration for this. What happened historically in Kurdish social organizations and women’s participation in social life is also important for today. It is not a society in which the power and state systems are highly developed. It is the least developed in society. It is a society that has not realized empowerment and statehood. What does this mean? It means that women play a very active role in society. It means that, to a certain point, women’s freedom and leadership still prevail in society. Statehood and empowerment are expressions of male dominance; they are its products. It is a result of the politics of the dominant male mentality. Since historically, this is not as deeply rooted in Kurdish society as in many other societies, this already makes a big difference.

As for the development in the PKK, Rêber Apo is a personality passionate about freedom, and this from his childhood on. His development of the movement is also like that. His passion for research on the Kurdish identity and struggle for freedom has created so many achievements and brought about so many developments, making him a true pioneer of his people. It made him a personality that overcame many difficulties and obstacles. The same thing manifested itself in the problem of women as the most oppressed, exploited, and enslaved gender. He approached this issue seriously from the very beginning. As he understood the Kurdish reality, he tried to understand the reality of women, and as he analyzed the Kurdish reality, he analyzed women. This is how the evaluation and analysis of women developed, and of course, when it came to the point of founding a party, Rêber Apo saw the power of women, the power of women marching towards freedom and struggling for freedom, as the most fundamental force of this party.

One of the core calls in the PKK founding declaration was made to women and was prepared by Rêber Apo. It is still a strong call that affects everyone who reads it. He called for creating a new life with the PKK by destroying all forms of slavery, fighting against all forms of domination, and envisioning a free society and a free Kurdistan. This was an important call, but since the mentality and ideological system of real socialism were still in the foreground at the time, it took some time before the realities corresponding to the call became the defining factors in the political and organizational framework of the PKK. How was it initially received back then? It was perceived as one of the many arms of the movement, as a pillar of struggle and organization. The pioneering struggle for women’s freedom was not initially seen as fundamental. But the women’s organization took the issue very seriously. It developed from the mid-1980s onward.

It developed in Europe and spread to other areas. Women had already participated in the PKK when it was still a group, and later, through the breakthrough of August 15, when the guerrilla struggle was implemented, many women joined its ranks. The more problems arose in the guerrilla struggle and the more corresponding solutions developed, the more the importance and role of women in the struggle became apparent. Accordingly, the issue of women’s freedom and the issue of the family were more on the agenda of Rêber Apo, and he evaluated them more. After the 3rd Congress, with the establishment of the Mahsum Korkmaz Academy, Rêber Apo’s theoretical evaluations deepened. It was multifaceted and developed in many dimensions, but there were two main dimensions of Rêber Apo’s deepening at that time. One was the dimension of the guerrilla struggle, and the second was women’s liberation. These developed in parallel to each other. They deepened, complemented, and strengthened each other. Gradually, this had a great impact on society. Not only did the participation in the guerrillas increase, but from the beginning of the ’90s, the women-led national resurrection revolution, the serhildans, developed. This marked the beginning of the women’s liberation revolution and gave birth to the ‘Party of Free Women in Kurdistan’ (PAJK). Women’s militancy developed; the autonomous women’s guerrilla developed, which today is embodied as ‘Free Women’s Units – Star’ (YJA-Star). Consciousness, ideology, and the organization and struggle based on it developed are intertwined with each other.

With the new paradigm, Rêber Apo took women’s freedom as a fundamental pillar of the paradigm. The ecological society, the ethical and political society, and the freedom of women; these are the three main pillars of the ideology of Rêber Apo. He addressed the need for women’s freedom on many levels, and, accordingly, developed ‘Jineoloji’ as a science of women. The Kurdish woman embraced and participated in this by struggling under the most difficult circumstances, taking on all kinds of risks and tasks, and assuming the responsibility and duty of leading the struggle for their country and nation. Thus, the ideology of women’s liberation, and the women’s liberation revolution came to the agenda. On the basis of PAJK, KJK, and YJA-Star. It became a movement to create a new life, a new society, a new revolution. It defined the 21st century as the century of women’s freedom. This development affected all the movements related to women’s issues in the world. It revealed the narrowness and inadequacy of feminist movements, movements that fought for women’s rights and for materialistic equality to reduce the oppression of women. It drew them to the women’s liberation revolution.

Rêber Apo created the slogan “Jin, Jiyan, Azadi” and called it the ‘magic formula’. It indeed has become a magic solution, a pioneering force for the problems created by the power and state system. Humanity is marching under the leadership of women. It is marching with the Jin Jiyan Azadi revolution. The women’s liberation struggle and revolution is not just a part, a branch, but the vanguard of the struggle for freedom and free life. It constitutes the basis of social freedom; it expresses its leadership. It envisages overthrowing and changing male dominance in every aspect.

Now we are approaching November 25th; it is called the international day against violence against women. It is followed by November 26 and 27, the anniversary of the founding of the PKK. Creating a women’s party, creating a women’s liberation revolution, and thereby turning the struggle against violence against women into a women’s liberation revolution was the most appropriate approach, and it still is. This needs to be evaluated together. November 25 finds its best meaning in the reality of the PKK on November 26 and 27. The greatest women’s liberation struggle is the PKK struggle. A struggle that finds its representation in the foundation of the PKK. Some people narrow the definition of violence too much. They envision it as material violence and oppression. But it is not like that. By exposing not only visible violence but also invisible male-dominated violence against women and by envisioning a women’s liberation revolution that fights against it, the PKK is a movement that strongly wages the struggle for women’s freedom and equality as women’s identity against the male mentality and system. This reality is much better seen and understood by women today. Women realize the meaning of PAJK’s leadership more and more. They understand more deeply the Jineoloji developed by Rêber Apo. They participate more than anyone else in the global freedom campaign for the physical liberation of Rêber Apo. They embrace it and they lead it. Because they see and understand with their lives and experiences that Rêber Apo is indeed the strongest companion of women.

This will be the fundamental revolution of the 21st century. And the statist structures are attacking this because it is the women’s liberation revolution that most concretely exposes and confronts the mentality and political system that creates the state and power. It analyzes not only the state and power, but most crucially the mentality and hierarchy that lead to it. It analyzes male dominance beyond the state and power. It reveals the male-dominated mentality and system that is internalized in all areas of life beyond the rough appearance of the state and power. In this respect, they fear women. The struggle for the revolution of women’s liberation consciousness unmasks them the most. The struggle for women’s liberation exposes the male-dominated mentality and system, the power and state system the most; it shows its brutality, its unacceptability, and its inability to live the most. Therefore, the ruling statist forces are afraid of the women’s liberation struggle. That’s why they attack. In the past, some struggles for women’s rights did not reveal their faces at all. They were even trying to win it for themselves. This is due to liberalism. They were under its influence, but now the women’s liberation revolution that is developing on the basis of Jineoloji is shattering and eliminating all this. It completely unmasks them and reveals the truth in all its depth. Therefore, the power and the state system are afraid. It sees its own end coming. It sees that it will lose everything in the women’s liberation revolution. Things have changed. Women are seen as the most dangerous and are therefore attacked, oppressed, and arrested. Women understand this reality better than anyone else; they educate and organize themselves accordingly. Men who become conscious and organized on the basis of women’s liberation see this reality. Free women and men who strive for liberation can analyze this reality together and struggle more effectively. No matter what they do, the male-dominated mentality and politics, the power and state system will not be able to destroy this consciousness and the organization and struggle it creates. On the contrary, this consciousness, organization, and development will destroy the male-dominated mentality, politics, and the power and state system. It will make the 21st century a century of a free and democratic society based on women’s liberation.