In this in-depth interview, KCK Executive Council Member Mustafa Karasu called on all Kurds to take to the streets for the May 1st Labor Day celebration today. He also wished a speedy recovery to Sirri Sureyya Önder, a DEM Party MP and a member of the Imrali delegation, and spoke about the importance of the current process involving Abdullah Öcalan, the Turkish government, the guerrillas and all social and political parties in Turkey. 

Sirri Sureyya Önder, a member of the Imrali delegation and one of the key players in the ongoing talks, has been hospitalized due to a serious heart condition. It’s already been a couple of days, but everyone is still waiting to hear positive news about the improvement of his health. Above all, what can, or would you like to say about this?

I wish, firstly, a speedy recovery to our dear friend Sirri Sureyya Önder. All of us here are concerned about his condition. He was undertaking an important duty, and he was doing so very well. After his surgery, the whole society in Turkey and Kurdistan embraced him. This is significant. In a way, this embrace is a support for the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ that Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] took the initiative for. In other words, the reason for such support is his efforts for peace and a democratic society.

Sirri Sureyya Önder is a good artist, filmmaker, director, and writer who knows very well how to use his language. His speeches have a corresponding impact. He can be described in many ways; he is a revolutionary, a democrat, and a politician with a mature personality who knows how to address every part of society when he holds a speech. He is quite a versatile person. Since 2013 he has been part of the Imrali talks and has had important dialogues with Rêber Apo. Once or twice, when he said to Rêber that he himself was “not very keen on politics,” Rêber Apo criticized Sirri Sureyya Önder. Yes, making art is important, but politics is also important in Turkey. Considering the reality of Turkey, without a democratic Turkey, without a Turkey where there is free thought, there can be no proper art; in this respect, Rêber Apo encouraged him to stay in politics. Sirri Sureyya Önder values the words of Rêber Apo and highly respects him. He is a friend of ours who always says that the thoughts of Rêber Apo had improved him a lot and broadened his horizons.

A good son of the peoples of Turkey and a very good friend of the Kurds is currently suffering from a severe illness. He was contributing a lot to the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom. Our hope and expectation is that he will regain his health and resume his political struggle for the democratization of Turkey and the solution of the Kurdish question. We believe that with the resolution of this problem, he will also make strong contributions to art and literature in Turkey.

The global struggle and the international campaign for the physical freedom of peoples leader Abdullah Öcalan are continuing, and based on this an impressive conference was recently held in the Italian capital. How do you assess the current efforts and developments in this context?

The conference in Rome was a result of the continuing global campaign for Rêber Apo. There have been many meetings, conferences, and, for example, concerts like this, and there will even be more in the future. In this respect, today, the campaign for the freedom of Rêber Apo has become a struggle and an effort of all the peoples, democrats, and socialists of the world. Especially the trade unions in the UK have played an important role in the development of this struggle at this level, and one of the people responsible for it, the esteemed Director of International at UNITE the Union, Simon Dubbins, has really made great efforts. We truly appreciate and salute their efforts.

The conference in Rome was significant. The results of the campaign carried out so far were evaluated there. A great will and determination to further develop the campaign for Rêber Apo was expressed, and there had even been discussions about the nomination of Rêber Apo for the Nobel Peace Prize. We salute everyone who contributed to this campaign. They are truly very valuable friends, people with principles and values. They support such a revolutionary, knowing what kind of a socialist and socialist Rêber Apo is, how he supports the women’s liberation struggle and the ecological struggle, and how he fights for the freedom and democracy not only of Kurds but of all the peoples of the Middle East. They support such a revolutionary.

We see how much the people’s sense of responsibility for Rêber Apo has grown in the international arena – it stems from the fact that Rêber Apo has become a leader of all the peoples and a pioneer of democracy and freedom – but it must continue to grow and be expressed more effectively. Partly because of the Turkish state’s constant pressure, constantly portraying the freedom struggle as a terrorist movement and constantly putting pressure on it, various circles are hesitant – to a certain extent – to support it more openly. Otherwise, the current thoughts of Rêber Apo are an idea, a paradigm that really needs to be evaluated and discussed on an international level. Especially the leftist forces in Turkey and the democrats in Turkey have a deficiency in this regard. They need to read, understand, and evaluate Rêber Apo’s paradigm better. There is a paradigm, an ideology put forward by a Kurdish leader. Certain circles do not show the necessary and sufficient interest due to the fact that he is a Kurdish leader. I express this as a clear criticism. While he is attracting so much attention all over the world and in the Middle East, this weakness of the left and democrats in Turkey is actually a result of the Turkish state’s or the Kurds in Turkey’s incomplete view. The same is not the case on a global scale. Everywhere in the world, from Europe and America in the North to Africa and Asia in the South, those who learn about the paradigm of Rêber Apo embrace it. Those in the farthest places are trying to learn and embrace it. All the prison writings of Rêber Apo are in Turkish. Those who know Turkish could learn the paradigm better and easier than anyone else.

When we evaluate these kinds of conferences, we see them as stages to disseminate the paradigm of Rêber Apo. We see these conferences as an important method to make efforts in that direction all over the world. On this occasion, I once again greet with respect those who prepared that conference, those who embraced it, and those who participated in it.

How do you evaluate the last meeting on Imrali that took place on April 21, as well as the meeting with the Minister of Justice, both of which took place while the isolation of peoples leader Abdullah Ocalan still continues?

The initiated process is crucial. It concerns the future of Turkey. It concerns the future of the Middle East. They themselves pointed out its significance, “Let him come to parliament and speak. Then the right to hope will come into play.” That is what they said. They said that once Rêber Apo says that he will dissolve the organization and give up the armed struggle, the so-called ‘Right to Hope’ will be activated. In other words, they made a commitment in this respect, they made a promise. This is not only Devlet Bahceli’s promise; this is a promise of the government. Because the government also supported and embraced Devlet Bahceli’s position. It was a call that was planned and prepared by both Bahceli and Erdogan. Rêber Apo gave the necessary response in a short time. He said, “If you give me the opportunity, I can move the process to legal and political grounds.”

Of course, the key word here is legal and political. This is how Rêber Apo understands this process. He understands the call for the cessation of the armed struggle as moving it to the legal and political process, bringing it to that process. That is what he clearly emphasized, and so, on February 27th, Rêber Apo made the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’. Rêber Apo has said what he wants to say. As a direct response, immediately afterwards, the PKK also made it clear that it would fulfill the requirements of this call of Rêber Apo. It said and accepted that it would fulfill the requirements of that call without any hesitation or interpretation. Subsequently, the HPG also declared that it would put the call for a ceasefire into practice. Now what should be done in the face of this situation? The government was to immediately lift the isolation of Rêber Apo. What happened? After more than a month, forty days, there was a meeting. The Imrali delegation met with Rêber Apo. Such an important process, such an important discussion, but the society is being put on hold. How can it be that the meeting only takes place after 40 days? This shows the government’s inadequate approach and hesitation on this issue. To what extent will they really enter into the political and legal process? Will they prepare the ground for the solution of this problem on the basis of a political and legal process? The public opinion, particularly our people and the democratic forces, is expressing serious doubts regarding the government’s approach. On the other hand, the mayor of Istanbul and many people have been arrested. What kind of process will develop with so many arrests and so much pressure? In such a situation, people naturally and rightly express their concerns and doubts.

But at the end, there still was a meeting, even though it took a long time. There was already a meeting with the president. And as you mentioned, most recently there was a meeting with the Ministry of Justice. This shows that at least something is being done. But there is still no practice. The only thing that is continuing is the talking in the rare meetings, without any practical change in their approach. It is still not known what the outcome of the meeting with the Ministry of Justice will bring. They just said, “We will look into it.” In fact, Gulistan Kocyigit recently pointed out that this meeting should not be given too much meaning, saying, “It was a beginning”. They, too, are hesitant about whether the government and the Minister of Justice will take any steps. And there was a suggestion to change the observation committees to give them a new form. We do not find it right. Neither on March 12 nor on September 12, nor at any other time during the most fascist military dictatorships in Turkey, was there any such practice. The courts gave a sentence; whether it was 15 years or however long he would serve, they would let him out as soon as he had served his time. When there was already a trial, they would apply good behavior when necessary, or they would not apply good behavior. The courts were already evaluating this, according to themselves, during the court process.

Now these negotiations have taken place. We are waiting for the outcome of these negotiations. The whole public is waiting and wondering. What is important for us and for our people is that a practical step is taken. This needs to be done without spreading it over such a long period of time. Rêber Apo has said what he wanted to say at the moment. The organization has also said what it wants at the moment. Public opinion also embraces this process. Turkey’s largest opposition party, CHP, even the largest party in the last election, openly embraces this process; they say that they will support it and that the issue should be brought to parliament. It needs to be brought to parliament. In this respect, if the Kurdish question or any other issue is to be solved, it needs to be brought to parliament. If the main opposition party and other parties demand this, then the government must do this. But so far we have not seen this.

Now that we have reached the end of our conversation, what would you like to say about the upcoming first of May, the workers’ day of struggle?

Before evaluating May 1, I commemorate with gratitude and respect all the martyrs who have been martyred in May 1 celebrations and workers’ struggles since the execution of the four revolutionary workers in the USA, which is the source of May 1. In Turkey, 34 revolutionaries and patriots were massacred on May 1, 1977. I remember them with respect and gratitude. I personally was also in that clash. I was right in the heart of the action that day. We put many wounded and martyred people in taxis and pickup trucks and tried to send them to hospitals. I am a living witness to that.

The significance of May 1, the fact that it is celebrated so strongly every year, stems, of course, from the laborers who struggled and those who were martyred in this struggle. It is necessary to keep their memories alive. While commemorating the martyrs on May 1, I also remember the martyrdom of Ibrahim Bilgin and Mehmet Karasungur, who gave their lives on May 2. I remember them with respect and gratitude.

May 1 is important for us. We no longer see May 1 as just a Workers’ Day. Yes, it is a day of solidarity for laborers. But it is also a day of socialism. One needs to evaluate it like this. May 1 is the day of socialism. When we say workers’ solidarity day, the struggles of the laborers, the struggles that brought about May 1, are all socialist. Because they were socialist-minded, they were pioneers in this labor struggle, and they were martyred.

Today, as a day of solidarity, the social ground of May 1 has expanded even more. Because capitalist modernity has become the enemy of the whole society. There is a reality of capitalist modernity that destroys and eliminates not only workers but the whole society. It decays and destroys society, decays culture, and leaves no human and social values. The struggle against capitalism is not only the struggle of workers but the struggle of all people, particularly of women. Again, the struggle of those who want an ecological society has come to the stage. When evaluating May 1, it is necessary to evaluate it in a more comprehensive and wider dimension. It should be considered as the struggle of the whole society for freedom, the struggle for democracy, the democratic social struggle against capitalist modernity. It is not enough to limit it to a day of solidarity for workers only. Yes, it is a day of solidarity for working people; that is true. But this day must be assessed more broadly. Those who gave their lives in order for May 1 to gain its meaning have always struggled to eliminate this evil of capitalism and create a more socialist world, a democratic socialist world.

May 1 in Turkey has always been a day of great struggle. Perhaps Turkey is one of the countries in the world that embraces May 1 the most. When I say Turkey, I mean the Kurds and all other peoples. Kurds have always embraced May 1 and have always taken part in the May 1 struggle. In this respect, this year’s May 1 should be more meaningful. It should be seen as a struggle of a great alliance of peoples, laborers, and women against capitalist modernity, as a struggle for democracy. The struggle for democracy is also a struggle against the current power. It is a struggle for an alliance against the power. Because the current government still resists democracy. It has undemocratic approaches. There are new arrests. There are antidemocratic practices. May 1 is also a struggle against these antidemocratic practices.

On the other hand, it is necessary to turn May 1 into a day on which Rêber Apo’s ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ is also raised. Because peace and democratic society are not something that can only be realized through the efforts of Kurds. We can create a democratic society with the struggle of all the peoples of Turkey, laborers and women. A democratic society means a democratic Turkey. It means creating a democratic Turkey based on an organized society. An organized society means a struggling society. It is creating an alternative democratic society against capitalist modernity. One of the most fundamental goals of creating a democratic society is the struggle against capitalist modernity. In this respect, the Kurdish people should participate very strongly in the May 1 celebrations everywhere. In terms of creating a democratic society, they should show a common stance with the laborers and particularly the women in Turkey. They should show a common attitude. In this way, they should strengthen Rêber Apo’s call.

The ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ can only be strengthened and achieve results with the efforts and support of the democratic forces. It is wrong to expect only from the government. It is necessary to get the support of democratic forces, socialists, and laborers to grow the struggle for a democratic society together with them and to make this process a success. In this respect, I call on all Kurdish people to take to the streets on May 1. I congratulate everyone on May 1 and wish them success in their struggle.