In the third part of his interview with ANF, Muzaffer Ayata, a member of the PKK's Central Committee, calls on the Turkish state to change its attitude towards the Kurdish question and abandon its policy of denial and annihilation that has been fruitless for a century.

Why does the current Turkish government consider the Kurdish question a "terror issue"?

The Kurdish question is a 100-year-old problem and started in Turkey with the founding of the Republic. Their construction created this problem. Was there a PKK when Şêx Saîd and Seyîd Riza and tens of thousands of people were massacred and exiled? It is a historical social problem. According to the constitution, there are no Kurds, only Turks. The state wants to turn everyone into a Turk. But that is not a command of God or a law of nature. The Kurds don't want to be Turks. The state has been pursuing this policy for 100 years and has failed. That should end and the constitution must be rewritten.

Kurds and Turks live together in one territory. They have a lot in common. Why is there so much bloodshed, violence and denial? There are about 40 million Kurds in the four parts of Kurdistan. They have status in South Kurdistan, and a recognized status is developing in Rojava. In order to destroy that too, the Turkish state is attacking with no mercy. Turkey has used up all its economic resources and ideological reserves for this. What happens if the AKP/MHP alliance wins another election? What would happen if the regime killed and made more Kurds suffer? You can't turn back history, you can't construct it and write it however you want. If that was the case, Mustafa Kemal would have done it already.

If the Kurdish question had been approached differently, what would the situation be like today?

Turkey would not be so isolated and discredited in the world today if it had not been at war with the Kurds and if it had not plunged headlong into the war in Syria. It would not have exhausted all its internal and external resources. On the contrary, the Kurds would have become a bridge between Syria, Turkey and Iraq. With a democratic model, Turkey would have been the rising star of the Middle East. Trade and economic relations had developed at a much higher level. Turkey would have become rich and could easily have joined the European Union. There would be no obstacle to joining the European Union.

How great is the damage that this war policy has caused in the Middle East?

Turkey has thrown itself into the war in Syria and waged war on Syria. In this war, the ISIS mercenaries were able to enter Syria via Turkey without any problems. All this evil was directed against the Kurdish people. The Turkish state set ISIS on the Kurds. While the whole world was fighting ISIS, Turkey supported it. They wanted to suffocate and destroy the Kurds, especially in Syria. The Kurds fought hard and paid a high price for the fight against ISIS. Together with the Arab population, they cleaned up the areas and began to administer them together. Despite Turkish pressure, the Arab population did not align themselves with the mercenaries and Turkey. Together with the Kurds, they followed their own line and were not hostile to the Syrian regime. Because the Kurds were concerned with their own identity and a free life. They didn't have to be enemies of anyone or emulate anyone. Turkey did not digest this. She gathered all the mercenary groups in Syria around her and had them attack the Kurdish population. These mercenaries are now a scourge of Turkey. Fascist demagogy in Turkey spreads the view that the Kurds and the PKK are Turkey's shackles and that if they are defeated, Turkey will conquer the world. With such demagogy, their own population is being deceived.

The chains and black spots are ISIS and al-Nusra. In Syria, murderers are unleashed on the population. The occupied territories have turned into a paradise for murderers, criminals and mercenaries. Turkey is now a major threat to global security. The Arab world has withdrawn its protective hands from the Muslim Brotherhood, ISIS and al-Nusra. Note that no Arab country supports these groups anymore. They don't accept them on their territory. But Erdoğan is doing it. In doing so, he is threatening the Arab world. Turkey is blackmailing Europe with the refugees it has taken in. It even threatens to bring IS and other organizations in Europe into play. Because he always has them at hand.

If we look closely, all the leaders of ISIS were killed in the areas under Turkish occupation. The safe zones for IS leaders are the areas under Turkish control. Some of them were killed or captured in operations (by the SDF and the International Coalition). There are also those who were not captured, who are not well known. They bet on Turkey. Turkey sponsors them and if the Turkish state wants to, they change their names. The whole world has declared al-Nusra a terrorist organization. Turkey also had to do this, but they established a kingdom for al-Nusra (in Idlib). The Turkish army protects them.

The cracks in Turkey's internal balance are becoming more and more apparent. Meanwhile, elected representatives of the Kurdish people are increasingly being targeted. What does that mean?

The Turkish government has turned into an organized crime association. It pursues a policy of repression, deception and psychological warfare against its own people; it opposes those who criticize, resist, demand justice and democracy; it marginalizes and humiliates those who want peace and democracy. Imagine that the Kurds took part in the elections according to Turkish law. Their papers are examined by the public prosecutor's office and they are told that their candidacy in the elections is not a problem. The winner of the election is then designated a terrorist. Mayors and MPs are thrown in jail. Their immunity must be lifted in a hurry.

There is nothing Semra Güzel (the recently imprisoned HDP MP) has done. Yet, she was stigmatized because of a photo taken with a guerrilla fighter. All of Turkey's security systems have been turned upside down. Turkey is in the process of collapse. One acts as if one has never seen a guerrilla fighter in Turkey. As if the guerrillas came from space. Kurds shouldn't have anything to do with each other, shouldn't greet each other and shouldn't meet. They literally throw people in the pot and cook them and then dance around and are happy to eat them. Oh, we got Semra - what an operation...they say! You have no shame. Semra Güzel is a Member of Parliament. Her immunity was wrongly lifted and she was portrayed as a criminal.

Meanwhile, all the robbers and criminals gather around the government. Interior Minister Soylu has appeared in pictures with all of them. No proceedings will be opened against them. They are Erdoğan's favourites. Erdoğan is a man who is finished in every respect.

Angela Merkel was chancellor for 16 years. She resigned with respect and by the rules, but Erdoğan is not playing the game by the rules. Today everyone in Turkey, including opposition circles, is saying that Erdoğan will start a civil war. Erdoğan will manipulate the election. Erdoğan will declare a state of emergency. Erdoğan will start a war somewhere. However, in an environment of crisis and chaos, he will either win the elections or postpone them. These options are currently being discussed. Such a thing was not discussed in the time of Ecevit and Mesut Yılmaz. Erdoğan has been in power for 20 years and has brought the country to this state. Turkey has broken all democratic conventions. He has made all institutions dysfunctional, hollowing them out and binding them to himself. He created a Hitler-style model of government. If you analyze Hitler's style of government, you can see how similar they are.

How does this fit into Turkey's history?

The technique of domination is based on undermining the law through crises and chaos. In the history of Turkey, the law has never been so massively discredited as it is today. Even in the period after September 12 (1980 military coup), this was not the case. The judiciary did not intervene so massively. Judges and prosecutors have never been made into such cheap pawns. The religious orders in Turkey have never been so powerful and rich. They have never been so much the extension of political power. There have been religious communities with government ties before. The government benefited from them and they benefited from the government, but never to the extent that they do today.

The religious communities in Turkey have lost their spiritual side. They ceased to be institutions in the service of religion. Erdoğan ruined them and finished them off. Erdoğan has done the greatest evil to Islam in Turkey. He devoured Erbakan's entire legacy. After 50 years of work, Milli Görüş was at least an alternative in Turkey, a hope in Islamic circles. We criticize them, that's another question, but Erbakan had respect in Islamic circles. He described it as an "honest assignment". Erdoğan has created a mafia-like gang of robbers. He brought about an inflation regime. He plays with the stock market and interest rates. People are getting poorer. Currently, banks have quadrupled their profits as part of inflation. But the cost of living has skyrocketed. Turkey is a world leader in this respect, despite the publication of false figures on the inflation rate.

This shows the level of impoverishment in society. You rob people, you take everything they have. All resources and wealth are concentrated in specific circles. There was hope, a quest, a dream of a future in Islam. Now Erdoğan has devoured them. He destroyed the Islamic communities in Turkey, hollowed them out. He made them the support and plaything of power. He tied them to the government. He gave them material wealth and took away spirituality. He gutted them all and suffocated their spirits. Erdoğan is so desperate for power that he won't let go, even if he dies in the process. He says the homeland is in danger, it's a matter of survival. You are surrounded by enemies, the imperialists are attacking, you are resisting the world... It's all nonsense. He goes to all the imperialists in the world and asks them: "Support me, let's make a deal, I will make concessions." That's what he says.

Turkey will be extradited to Putin. Never before, not even in Ottoman history, has Turkey made so many concessions to Russia. Tenders for nuclear power plants, missile systems that cannot be used, billions of dollars, all for Erdoğan's regime. At the same time, he signs agreements with NATO against Russia and also tells Putin that he should come and the Kurds will be massacred together. Then he will not participate in the embargo and support Russia.

It is obvious that nobody, only Erdoğan, wants a war in Syria. He provokes and arms all of his mercenaries. He will attack the Kurds or the regime. He has prepared his army and says: "Let me go, I will dissolve the Kurdish areas, I will remove the Kurds from there and replace them with mercenaries". He announces a genocidal plan against the Kurds.