In the second part of this interview, Sabri Ok, member of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the crisis Turkey is in, the policy of trustees and the problems in the Middle East.

Part one of this interview can be read here.

Turkey is currently experiencing a major political, social, and economic crisis. And once again, it has resorted to trustees. They are putting the municipalities of the DEM Party and CHP on the agenda and seizing them. How do you evaluate this trustee method and the attitude against it?

Trustees mean dictatorship, fascism, occupation, ignoring, and trampling on the will of the people. They are sending a message to the Kurds, saying that if they don’t think and act like the state wants, this is what will happen to them. The state threatens and says that they can’t live democratically. A few days ago, Devlet Bahceli said to the DEM Party that either they would either come around or would be destroyed. How can a politician say such a thing to a party that has received over 8 million, almost 10 million votes, has municipalities, and has MPs?

Even according to Turkish law? Only dictators can say that; only Bahceli can say that. Whatever the Turkish state says about the Kurdish people and the PKK, it says it consciously. It calculates every step it takes, every word in every speech. Both Bahceli’s speeches and the trustee seizures are a message. “If you are not like us, if you insist on being yourself, if you do politics on your own behalf, if you insist on the solution of the Kurdish question and the democratization of Turkey, we will not give way to you; we will appoint trustees.”.

Our people understand this, and they are taking a stance against it, which is important. But it is not sufficient. There is great oppression and fascism, and protecting one’s honor, labor, and gains requires a price and requires a great resistance. Our people are on the move; they are resisting. We congratulate them, but they need to struggle more and continuously. For example, when they appoint a trustee in one place, they should rise up everywhere as if they were appointed everywhere. They should rise up not only in the province or district where a trustee was appointed but throughout all of Kurdistan. It should not be so easy to appoint a trustee. This must be fought against everywhere. In the legal, political, international, and social spheres, and generally everywhere, there must be a struggle and constant protest. Because there is a great injustice. They are ignoring the will of the Kurdish people, and, of course, a struggle must be waged against this. Not only the Kurdish people, but everyone who considers himself/herself a democrat or socialist and is against fascism must unite their will and power.

The democratization of Turkey is not independent of the solution to the Kurdish question. The solution to the Kurdish question is not independent of the democratization of Turkey. Their pains and joys are the same. Therefore, all forces against fascism, even those with liberal values, should act together and raise their voices everywhere against the AKP-MHP dictatorship and the trustee usurpations. Society and democratic forces in Turkey must rise up in a more organized and stronger way. They also appointed trustees to the CHP; the AKP is experimenting, testing their reflexes. If the CHP continues to behave like this, they will appoint more trustees. The CHP should not be afraid of the Kurds or the DEM Party. They should be brave and act together. Actually, it is not a matter of courage because there is injustice, there is fascism, and those who are against fascism must fight together. They are appointing trustees to both you and the DEM Party. Even if they wouldn’t appoint trustees for you, everyone who is a Democrat must struggle against this together. CHP is lacking in this regard. However, they have the power. They can shake Turkey on the issue of Turkey’s democratization.

All forces against fascism should unite and struggle together, but the CHP is weak in this regard. The 100-year-old Republican veins sometimes stand out more. It is true; there are efforts, but they are not enough; the CHP must play a crucial role. Otherwise, they will continue to appoint trustees to their municipalities. The trustee issue is briefly like this: the AKP-MHP fascism is seriously stuck, and they are sending us a message to step back. Everyone, especially the democratic forces, must take a stand and struggle against these trustee policies. AKP is not strong in society right now; they are not liked by society. They are not even strong within the state; their economy has collapsed, their politics have collapsed, and they have played with everything in society. They exist only with the power of the state. The power of the state is not everything; society and truth are necessary. Therefore, if the struggle is strengthened, fascism will be forced to step back or will be defeated.

Before Trump was elected, he said that the war in the Middle East would grow and deepen. Where do you think the war that started in Gaza, then spread to Lebanon and now continues in Syria is heading?

The problems in the Middle East are very complex. Sexism, racism, statism, religionism, everything exists in the Middle East. But there is also this: capitalist modernity has hit the Middle East, but it is stuck and cannot get a result. It is not possible to solve the problems in the Middle East through foreign powers. A lasting solution can be found with the mind and will of Middle Eastern society. But capitalist modernity hinders this mindset and will. In its interest is always the creation of chaos, crisis, and problems. When this crisis and chaos arise from time to time, they immediately intervene with war. No one knows what Trump will do, but as far as we understand, Trump will use all of America’s military, economic, and political power to solve problems according to his own interests. He may not necessarily use military interventions, just as a last resort. Mainly he will use his embargo power, his economic power, and then he will exert political pressure. In this way, he will want to pull Syria to his line, he will design Lebanon according to himself, and he will blockade Iraq and Iran militarily through economic and political pressure. He will aim to make these states desperate and get them to establish relations with him. Of course, he will also militarily intervene if he deems it necessary.

But all this is not a solution. The solution is the democratization of the Middle East. There is a basis for this. In the Middle East, everyone is strangling, exhausting, and destroying each other based on sexism, racism, and religionism. Contrary to this, Rêber Apo’s paradigm emphasizes the democratic coexistence of all societies. And  societies in the Middle East are open to this. The important aspect is to organize it well, to bring it forward, and to strengthen its struggle. Why should democratic confederalism not be possible in the Middle East? We need to work for it, need to struggle for it, and insist on it. Politics does not accept a vacuum. Yesterday, Lebanon, today Syria, and tomorrow maybe Iran, Iraq, and the entire Middle East may experience extraordinary situations. The concept or strategy of a hundred years ago is no longer enough for the hegemonic powers; they want to redesign the Middle East according to their interests.