In this in-depth interview, Besê Hozat, co-chair of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the visit to Abdullah Öcalan by DEM Party MPs Pervin Buldan and Sirri Sureyya Önder.

The meeting took place in Imrali on 28 December. Hozat said that, in view of what is happening in practice, it is not possible to talk about a solution or peace process. She also underlined the importance of the brotherhood between the Kurdish and Turkish people.

There was a meeting between a delegation from the DEM party and the peoples leader Abdullah Öcalan. Some of the analyses made by Abdullah Ocalan in this context were reflected in the press. Among other things, he spoke of a historical responsibility, that a solution cannot be delayed any longer, that he himself is prepared to make a positive contribution to it, and that the parliament must take responsibility. How do you evaluate these analyses as far as they have been published in the press so far?

I would like to congratulate Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] on the New Year. The delegation that had met with him recently stated that Rêber Apo’s condition and health were good and that his morale is high. We and our people are all very happy to hear about this. I sent my greetings to Rêber Apo with respect, love, and longing.

Surely, the evaluations reflected in public opinion are important, and there have already been several comprehensive ones. The most recent meeting is a continuation of the meeting with Ömer Öcalan, but it seems that it was much more extensive and in-depth. In the first meeting, Rêber Apo pointed out that the isolation was continuing and that he had the theoretical and practical power to pull the process from the ground of conflict to the political and legal grounds if conditions arose. Now, in this meeting, he focused much more comprehensively on the developments in the region and particularly regarding Turkey. Rêber Apo’s assessment of these and on how the dark scenarios imposed on the region lead to great dangers for the peoples is very significant. Looking at Rêber Apo’s prison writings, his 26 years of resistance in Imrali, his attitude, evaluations, and statements he made from time to time through meetings with his lawyers and HDP delegations, one can draw some conclusions. Rêber Apo is well aware of the depth of these dark scenarios and plans imposed on the region and the peoples in the region and the consequences they may lead to. He sees and constantly warns about this. He always formulates calls on the relevant powers, governments, peoples, the opposition, democratic forces, and public opinion.

Now again, he has put forward such an approach. He clearly states that he can and will make a great contribution to creating a solution, that he has the power, the theoretical and practical power, and that he will play his role if the state and the government are sincere, if they show a sincere will for a solution.

Regarding the dark plans and scenarios I mentioned, the situation the region is going through right now and the developments can be frightening. In this context, Rêber Apo gives the example of Gaza and the situation in Syria. Currently, the capitalist hegemonic powers are trying to implement the so-called ‘Greater Middle East Project’. This plan is based on Israel’s security, on securing Israel’s power in the region. And Turkey is also included in this plan, in a way that a trap has been set against it and a conspiracy directed against it has been set in motion. This has the potential to lead to serious problems and has the potential that the already existing problems will deepen and cause even more decay. The continuation of this will lead to sectarian, religious, and ethnic nationalist wars in the region. It will cause the peoples to strangle each other, the Middle East will turn into a bloodbath, and even more painful suffering will be experienced. The current developments are an indication of this. The situation in Syria is currently demonstrating this clearly for all to see.

If these contradictions and conflicts deepen, a terrible, both sectarian and nationalist, war will be unleashed in Syria. And it will spill over into Iraq and will have serious repercussions in Turkey. In a very obvious way, a divide and rule policy has been set in motion, making peoples hostile to each other. This is part of a dangerous plan that is currently being implemented. And Turkey is also included in this plan. In a way, this is actually a big trap, a conspiracy against Turkey and the peoples of the region.

This process started when the international conspiracy was launched and Rêber Apo got abducted. It has continued by deepening and becoming more comprehensive. Rêber Apo made many calls and many times drew attention to the dangers of this and how this atmosphere of conflict is gradually deepening in the region. What he therefore always emphasizes is the brotherhood of the Kurdish and Turkish people. If this is strengthened, it can provide a stable basis for the co-existence of the different peoples in the region. It is therefore fateful, important, and urgent for all peoples.

If their plan is not prevented now and continues, it will lead to a terrible enmity between the Kurdish and Turkish people. The conflict will be further deepened and intensified. And this will threaten the future of all the peoples of the region. It will reach a point where it will pose a threat to the future of the whole region. Strengthening the brotherhood of the Kurdish and Turkish people is an issue of great importance and urgency that will determine the fate of the peoples of the region. This is something that Rêber Apo clearly emphasizes.

As far as we understand it, Rêber Apo is currently trying to understand the meaning and value of Devlet Bahceli’s speeches and what is behind the process they have been trying to put on the agenda since October 1st. The central question is whether the recent statements are a tactical approach, whether they are just part of their special war, or whether Devlet Bahceli has actually become aware of the existing dangers and is now actually trying to prevent them. In this sense, the central question, in the words of Rêber Apo, is whether the AKP-MHP is actually developing a new paradigm. Is this the framework in which all the speeches are made last? Have they become aware of the dangers of the hegemonic powers’ plan regarding the region? Or is it the exact opposite, and they are trying to keep their power alive through their special warfare, as they couldn’t benefit greatly from the phase in any other way? This is a tactic they have used many times in the past. The main focus right now lies on getting clarity about this.

That is why there can be no question of any kind of process having begun. In any case, there is currently no supposed solution or peace process as discussed in some circles. There can be no talk of peace or a solution simply because of this meeting. The approach of Rêber Apo is the decisive litmus paper. The conditions of isolation and torture in Imrali still prevail. Rêber Apo’s health, security, and free living conditions have not been ensured. The genocidal attacks on the Kurdish people have not stopped. The extensive genocidal attacks on Rojava, southern and northern Kurdistan, and everywhere continue. There can be no talk of a solution and peace process.

Is this process fully put in the service of special warfare as it was in the past? Is the government trying to use it to sustain itself and maintain its power by taking a rent-seeking approach, instrumentalizing the situation of Rêber Apo, and instrumentalizing the Kurdish question? Because this is exactly how Erdoğan and the government handled the process between 2013 and 2015. Erdoğan took a tactical approach and instrumentalized the process. He instrumentalized both the situation of Rêber Apo and the Kurdish question. He used it to stabilize his dominance within the state, create his sovereignty, and maintain his power. He used it as a strong weapon in his special warfare. Now, the question is whether the government evaluates what is currently going on in the same way or whether it really puts forward the will for a solution and develops a serious negotiation process with Rêber Apo on the basis of the democratic solution to the Kurdish question and the democratization of Turkey. The ywill show, in particular, their practice will show this. The developments will show. Above all, how they approach it in practice will reveal this.

As long as no serious steps are recognizable in practice, there can be no talk of any kind of process. Their statements and speeches alone have no meaning. In time, it will become clearer what we are facing. But there is a situation and reality that can be seen, understood and evaluated. And that is why we see that the government is once again trying to play games, to push ahead with its special war. That they are once again making tactical advances. There are clear indicators of this. The system of isolation and torture continues in Imrali. Rêber Apo’s health, security and free living and working conditions are not ensured. Rêber Apo still cannot meet with his lawyers. He cannot meet with civil society organizations. He cannot meet with anyone he wants. There are many applications from people to go to Imrali every day. They come from politicians, intellectuals, artists, academics and social society organizations form Turkey and all of Europe. They receive no response. The torture and isolation system continues as it is. The conditions for Rêber Apo’s free life and work are not ensured. Also I said, the genocidal attacks continue intensely everywhere. How could a government with a mentality that opposes the self-defense of the Kurds in Rojava, tries to liquidate their democratic autonomous self-administration, and wants to genocide the Kurds, solve the Kurdish problem in Turkey on a democratic basis? How could it be sincere about the democratic solution of the Kurdish question? That is an important question mark. In a context of such policies and attacks, there can be no trust. No matter where you look, you see that the genocidal attacks and the annihilation policy continue with full intensity. Therefore, we assume that behind everything they are currently trying to stage is a concept of special war alone.

There is this perception in the public opinion as well. In all discussions among the democratic circles and Kurdish society, even when Kurds within the AKP are discussing, there is always this question mark. When Bahceli or Erdoğan speak, there is never any talk of a democratic solution. When Devlet Bahceli opens his mouth, he solely talks about destroying the PKK, liquidating Rojava, and the genocide of the Kurds. And it is the same when Erdoğan opens his mouth. The only things they express are killing, destruction, attack, and war. There is nothing they put forward other than that. The only thing that has changed in their speeches is that they now talk about the brotherhood of Kurds and Turks. They carry out such intense genocidal attacks against the Kurds and do everything to destroy the status of the self-administration of North and East Syria, for which the Kurds have given such great sacrifices; how can they talk about the brotherhood of the Kurds and Turks? They misuse the expression of brotherhood between Kurds and Turks for their politics. They say that there are Kurds, but they cannot accept the existence of a free Kurd who stands up for his own freedom and who wants to administrate himself. Kurds are slaves! Kurds should serve them, should be their slaves. They need collaborating Kurds for their oppression. They need their support so that they can put everything at the service of their imperialist policy. They accept such a Kurd. In other words, a Kurd who accepts that Kurds are dead are slaves. This has nothing to do with brotherhood. The government shows no will to find a solution. There is no sincerity. They have no solution-oriented policy and have not taken any practical steps. There can be no trust. The government continues its policies of denial, annihilation, and genocide with all its violence and intensity. In Imrali, torture and isolation are continued. The taking place of one or two meetings does not mean that the torture and isolation system has disappeared.

Rêber Apo has put forward an approach, a will for a solution. This is extremely important. He said that if the state creates the conditions for this, if it creates the ground for a solution, if it is sincere about this, that is, if it really changes its paradigm, if it changes its policy, he is ready; he said that he has the practical and theoretical power; he can play a strong role. He made this clear in the meeting and also called on the opposition, as well as on all further political circles. They should strongly contribute to such a process. All political forces and structures must play a positive role, contribute, and take initiative in order for such a process to develop, such a real solution process. We have also made this call on many occasions. We called on the CHP to take the initiative in this process and put forward a solution project, a solution plan. Rêber Apo has also called on all other political parties, forces, organizations, civil society movements, and everyone to play an effective role in this issue. We fully support the calls of Rêber Apo. We fully stand behind the will for a solution of our leader. Rêber Apo is the chief negotiator in the democratic solution of the Kurdish question. We have always pointed this out, and we will continue to do so.

The AKP-MHP government, the opposition, and the state as a whole must put forward a real will for a solution. It must put forward a will for a democratic solution of the Kurdish question and the democratization of Turkey. It must respond positively to these calls of Rêber Apo and take practical, concrete steps in this regard. If the Kurdish question is not resolved in Turkey, if Turkey continues with its current policy, Turkey will be the biggest loser in the region. Turkey should not deceive itself. Turkey will be shattered. Rêber Apo is Turkey’s last chance. The Kurdish freedom movement is Turkey’s last chance. If Turkey does not solve the Kurdish question with Rêber Apo on a democratic basis, if Turkey is not truly democratized, then Turkey will be divided. Ethnic conflicts and sectarian conflicts will be unleashed that will hold the country captive for centuries, and there will no longer be a state called the Republic of Turkey. Therefore, these calls, this will for a solution put forward by Rêber Apo, is a great chance for the Turkish state. If they do not seize this opportunity before their eyes, try to exploit it for themselves, and draw personal gain from the situation, they will experience a major collapse. We really feel the need to issue a warning in this regard.

Based on these two meetings with Rêber Apo and all these discussions, I consider it important that our people and democratic public opinion should not have such wrong expectations. There should not be any weakening in the struggle and resistance. What will strengthen Rêber Apo’s position in the struggle for a democratic solution, what will contribute to turning the current developments into a real solution process, is the struggle and resistance of our people. Only through this can a true solution be achieved. There should not be any wrong expectation, and accordingly there must definitely not be any loosening in the struggle and resistance. The other way around, the struggle and resistance must even be further spread and intensified. I especially want to emphasize this for our people, our people in northern Kurdistan, our people living in Turkey, our people in all four parts of Kurdistan, and abroad, our international friends, and all democratic circles. This process is still full of uncertainties. The possibility of all of this solely being part of their special war is very high. The practice, stance, and policy of this government are obvious. Therefore, it is necessary to continue the struggle stronger than ever. The global freedom campaign aiming for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo and the democratic solution of the Kurdish question must continue stronger than ever.

In the first year, the global freedom campaign was carried out strongly, a serious agenda was created and a great sense of responsibility was developed. In this second year, especially in 2025, the struggle on the social, legal, ideological, political and diplomatic dimension of the global freedom move must be carried out even stronger. In the course of 2025 a process must be developed that will ensure the physical freedom of Rêber Apo, the democratic solution of the Kurdish question, the democratization of Turkey and the democratization of the region. This must be the goal of all works in 2025. Therefore the global freedom campaign must be pursued even stronger and the struggle need to be intensified.

What would you like to say about the end of 2024 and the beginning of the new year?

A strong resistance has developed in the Medya Defense Areas. The Turkish state’s policies of denial, annihilation, and genocide were dealt a huge blow, and the Turkish army is in a big deadlock. These Misak-i Milli policies of the Turkish state have caused this serious deadlock and have been disrupted. The guerrilla has become a serious obstacle in front of them. Where the Turkish army entered, it got stuck. It is locked in one place. This is the situation in the Medya Defense Zones. The comrades put up a very strong resistance, and there have been great martyrdoms. I once again commemorate all the comrades who were martyred with great respect, love, and gratitude.

The resistance continues. There are clashes everywhere, as the attacks continue very intensely. I salute this great resistance, which is the reason why the Turkish state has not achieved any results so far. In 2025 this will not change. This resistance will continue, it will spread and get even more comprehensive on the basis of the new self-defense doctrine, not only in the Medya Defense Zones but also, in particular, by being put into practice in northern Kurdistan. Especially in 2025, this will be seen in the practice more strongly. This new doctrine of self-defense and war will bear fruit. I am convinced that a great self-defense war, a revolutionary people’s war, will be waged in northern Kurdistan in 2025. And this will bring about serious developments.

Likewise, the struggle for freedom in the four parts of Kurdistan will continue to grow and strengthen. On this basis, just as the year 2024 passed with great resistance and struggle, 2025 will pass with a strong struggle and resistance in a way that multiplies and grows this even more.

I would also like to take the opportunity to point out that December is a month of great martyrdoms and painful massacres, but also a month of great resistance. It was this very month in which the Meresh (tr. Kahramanmarash) massacre developed. Many of our people lost their lives in this massacre. I commemorate them all with great respect. Then again, there was the Roboski (tr. Uludere) massacre in which mainly Kurdish youths were murdered. 34 people lost their lives and were brutally massacred. I commemorate them with respect and gratitude. Then in 2001, there was an operation inside the prisons, in which dozens of revolutionaries and democrats got murdered by the state. I remember them all with great respect and gratitude. And not long ago, on December 23, 2022, Evin Goyi, Mir Perwer, and Abdurrahman Kizil were assassinated in the center of Paris. It was the Turkish intelligence that did this, and the French intelligence supported it. France became a partner in this crime. The assassination got known as the second Paris massacre, after our comrades Sakine, Ronahi, and Rojbin had already been brutally murdered there in 2013. I commemorate all these comrades with great respect, love, and gratitude.

Of course, there were also great martyrdoms within the guerrilla within this month. There is the martyrdom of the guerrilla commanders Adil and Gulbahar. Also Aziz Dersim, who was in charge of the self-defense in the province of Dersim (tr. Tunceli), was martyred in a clash on December 31, 2011, along with six further comrades. I commemorate all these comrades and all that I couldn’t mention with great respect, love, and gratitude. I promise that we will adhere to their memories and that we will lead this struggle to victory.

Again, the December of this year was characterized by great struggle and resistance. Especially the resistance in Rojava was a very important part of this. I want to commemorate Cihan Bilgin and Nazim Dashtan, who became the loud voice of truth in this resistance. These journalists, representatives of the truth, valuable people, gave their lives this month, as did dozens of SDF, YPG, and YPJ fighters and patriotic people who participated in the resistance. I commemorate them all with great respect, love, and gratitude. And of course, loyalty to their memories is only possible by leading their struggle to success. We will adhere to their memories, and we will lead the freedom struggle to success and victory. I give this promise to our people, to all our precious martyrs.