Berwari, a prominent politician from Southern Kurdistan, rejected the referendum plans on independence in Iraq saying that such a decision should be made with participation of Kurds from all parts of Kurdistan.

Berwari, member of Kurdistan National Congress (KNK) Executive Council, thinks that a referendum in Southern Kurdistan will be an obstacle on the way to achieve the united independent Kurdistan goal.

Berwari spoke to ANF about the independence referendum scheduled for September 24 and what it will mean for Kurds and other nations in the region.

You are participating in efforts to establish national unity among Kurds. Can you give us information about the obstacles you have faced and your achievements?

Our new system is not like the old one. We are organizing 5 conferences simultaneously. The preparations of conferences for Bakur (North), Rojava (West), Basur (South) and Rojhilat (East) Kurdistan continue. Only Kurdish representatives participated in our previous conferences but now representatives from all peoples, religions and social groups will take part.

What do you mean with a broader participation?

As Kurds are working to build a democratic nation in all parts of Kurdistan, other nations are also joining the struggle. We have two months in front of us until the conference in Rojava and we are working to bring together representatives of all political parties, religious organizations, intellectuals, NGOs for a broadest participation possible.

There were some political parties which were not present in the first conference. We know that there are efforts to bring those to the conference. Is there any progress?

The political parties that didn’t participate in the previous conference claimed that the conference is directly tied with KCK, PKK and Northern Kurdistan. But this is not true. Because there were representatives from 60 Kurdish political parties as well as representatives from PKK, PAJK and PYD. We met with the political parties which didn’t participate in the recent conference and we are informed that most of them are preparing to attend. We have a positive relationship and our door is open to all parties. We will continue to work to guarantee these parties’ participation until the last minute.

Every political party that does not participate has certainly their red lines. On the other hand we have the reality of divided Kurds and Kurdistan. Can we say that these political parties give more importance to their priorities than the priorities of the Kurdish people? What are your comments on that?

For us priorities of the Kurds and people of Kurdistan are important. A certain political party, a region or a village can’t represent Kurdish people. For example our Alewite people have their own set of religious rules but these can’t be applied to all Kurds. Or Soran, Hewreman, Behdinan regions won’t represent all of Kurdistan. Still our Êzidî people have very unique religious rituals. Those are all parts of Kurds and Kurdistan. They can’t represent all. Therefore the priorities of the Kurdish nation should be above individual, family or political party interests.

For us the red line is treason. If there are actions done or relationships developed against our nation, as KNK it’s our red line. What do we mean by treason? That means a political party, a group or an individual from Kurdistan, is on our enemies’ service and working against the interests of our people. Practices against Kurdish nation’s and Kurdistan’s interest and preventing establishment of Kurdish national unity means high treason.

Today, efforts to dominate a family or a political party over Kurdistan, putting their interests over Kurdistan’s is not acceptable. This is a political sickness.

This political sickness is present in Southern Kurdistan. It has branches in Rojava and Northern Kurdistan. Because those parties have settled in the body of Kurdish freedom to benefit for the freedom of only one part of Kurdistan. Although what needs to be done is to struggle for freedom, democracy and people’s interests, what they do is only serving for their family’s and party’s interest and label those who are working for national unity as “guilty” and “sinner”.

You have a deep knowledge of the southern (Kurdistan) politics as well as four parts (of Kurdistan). How do the familial and political interests affect the people of Kurdistan? Is this well understood by people?

People see this reality. We saw this in our meetings in Kirkuk, Tuz Khurmatu and other towns. People want us to draw a red line for political parties which didn’t join KNK and to never let them join KNK again. People are disturbed by the political parties in the south which literally seized all the gains of the Kurdish people after 27 years of struggle. There is a distance between those parties and the people. This distance is growing each and every day.

The greatest problem in the south is the mentality of political parties. There are political parties which were found 60-70 years ago but only one or two were able to change the leadership. Those parties which cannot develop party schools and democratic approach certainly have nothing to provide in the name democracy for Kurdistan. If a 60-70-year-old party have not developed a political project for the south they won’t be able to develop an alternative for the other parts of Kurdistan. And it will become defunct.

Unfortunately, the political parties in south didn’t achieve success in either political or military aspect. As if this is not enough they created offshoot parties in other parts of Kurdistan that create a great obstacle to the Kurds and the struggle for Kurdistan.

The political parties that do not favour national unity are usually working depending on or take courage from Erdoğan. Why? Because the first one of our 21 principles underlines the priority of national interests. But these parties don’t get anywhere near it. They fully act for their familial and political interests. This is not the mentality of 21st century; it’s the mentality of the Middle Ages.

What do you think about the south’s decision for a referendum? Considering its timing and the course of event is the region what would you like to say?

We expressed that voting “yes” in the referendum is wrong. We should say “yes” for Kurdistan’s independence in general. I can say this concerning the situation in the south: First of all, the political parties in Southern Kurdistan haven’t accomplished any important achievements since 1921. In span of 50 years between 1921-70 only a quite weak autonomy was gained. And it was only on paper, it was never materialized. There was a conspiracy against the Kurds in 1974 and the Kurdish struggle was impeded.  

Secondly, Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) relatively has a political programme. But it made the political situation worse. KDP seized the Kurdistan parliament, economy and almost all institutions in the south. Also KDP split the military power into many pieces. KDP doesn’t let anyone to take one step even if they are not close to the KDP. The civil society is left without a will. The media is under their control. They arrest writers or artists and even kill them.

How can a political structure with these practices talk about an independent Kurdistan? They talk about the independence of the south because this constitutes the greatest obstacle to greater Kurdistan. Nobody can claim that they can build Kurdistan over two villages, two or two and a half towns. This is because of the fact that the representatives in the south are not representatives of all Kurds. The representatives in the north, Rojava or in the east cannot claim that either. This is an issue that concerns all of Kurdistan. The right to establish Kurdistan is only possible with a common decision of all. Let’s say that you established a Kurdistan here, what will be the name of an independent structure in other parts of Kurdistan tomorrow?

What will happen if the south gains independence?

Firstly, where was the decision to hold a referendum on independence was made? This is the decision of only a few political parties led by KDP. This decision taken by a group does not represent the will of people of Southern Kurdistan because there are 49 political parties in the south. Only four political parties came together and half of them are not satisfied with the decision. Well, then how can you make such a decision?

Secondly, those who want to establish an independent Kurdistan should determine the basic common principles of greater Kurdistan. A common national structure should be built on social, political, military and economic principals. After that with a national diplomatic approach it should act at a level that will convince Baghdad, Europe, US, Russia and Iran. It should achieve a common ground to defend the rights of the Kurdish people in the world. Well, did the leading political power behind the referendum, the KDP, do any of these? They didn’t do anything about it. The referendum decision is a destruction. It’s the “malweran” (Kurdish word for destruction of someone’s house) of the Kurdish people. It’s the decision of a political suicide.

Barzani repeated their determination on the referendum. What will happen next?

If they hold a referendum, the territories under article 140 of the constitution will be lost. These areas are 52 percent of the total area under Kurdish control. KDP will be responsible of this. 60 million Kurds in four parts of Kurdistan will hold KDP accountable for this.

We should understand that the purpose of the referendum is not the independence of Kurdistan or establishing a Kurdish state. There won’t be such a referendum.

If they do not manage to hold a referendum they will say “We wanted to establish Kurdistan but they didn’t let us do that”. If they hold a referendum and all the territories under article 140 are lost and Kurds are attacked, they will say “this is what you wanted”.

Apart from all of these they (KDP) showed all omens of a dictatorship before the declaration of independent Kurdistan. Turkey is behind this project. They want to prevent the establishment of greater Kurdistan by creating a Southern Kurdistan state.

Why is Turkish state so afraid of the concept of great Kurdistan? Because in all parts of Kurdistan the ideas of Mr Öcalan and the KCK system come to life. The Kurds’ mind has been freed everywhere this philosophy has been embraced. The Turkish state is afraid of the free mind of Kurds and sees it as a threat against its sovereignty. Therefore Turkey has dragged some political forces in the south to the referendum hell in order to prevent the unification of Bashur and Rojava, elimination of the border between the north and the south, establishment of a confederal structure in all parts of Kurdistan. Referendum will hurt Kurds but especially the KDP.

What’s your proposal for a solution?

The solution for Kurds is to reach all Kurds. Why are we knocking the doors of KDP, PUK, Gorran and other political parties in other parts of Kurdistan? Because no single party can achieve freedom of greater Kurdistan. No single party can build a system or establish a state or defend itself. The history of Kurdistan shows us that neither a single part of Kurdistan nor a region, an individual or a party can establish a free and independent Kurdistan.

What is the fear of the enemies of the Kurds and Kurdistan? There is a common language, a common culture, a common land, a common diplomacy and a common future for the people of Kurdistan. We Kurds are united in so many aspects. The borders are eliminated in the Kurdish people’s minds. But some political parties in Kurdistan, especially the KDP, fortifies even further the borders drawn by Sykes-Picot agreement. KDP is deepening the century-old separation by digging trenches on the border between Rojava and the south.

We as KNK had talks with all political parties and we say this to them: Don’t let KDP waste the historic gains of the Kurdish people.