In the third and last part of this interview, Besê Hozat spoke in detail about the local elections held on 31 March as well as Turkish foreign policy and the need to increase the struggle for the environment.

The first part of the interview can be read here and the second here

Let’s turn our attention away from the AKP and look at the CHP. It has just held its charter and program congress in Sewas. How do you assess the current processes within the CHP?

With the support of society, the CHP achieved a very significant success in the municipal elections on March 31, becoming the leading party in Turkey. So society, particularly the Kurdish society, naturally had expectations. There was an expectation that the CHP would take a stance towards the solution to the Kurdish question, against war and isolation. Almost half a year has passed since the municipal elections. Let’s look at the CHP’s performance, its politics, understanding, and style; it cannot be said that it has been very successful or that it has responded to these expectations. Two and a half months after the municipal elections, the CHP filled the agenda with discussions on ‘normalization’ and ‘softening’. It wasted time, and through this, it bought time for the AKP-MHP’s fascist regime. It gave them a little bit of breathing space. The society criticized the CHP for pursuing an unbalanced policy whose direction was unclear. Until today, CHP has filled the agenda with debates about who will be the president. It is a very unnecessary and inappropriate agenda. They rarely hold rallies to bring up some of the problems of society, problems of hunger and poverty, and they try to create an agenda mostly through the economy. This is, of course, also a fundamental problem. But where do the economic problems stem from? The AKP-MHP have poured all of Turkey’s economic resources into the war. That is why Turkey’s economy has collapsed. It is a fact that there is a very serious economic crisis, depression, impoverishment, and hunger in Turkey. Of course, this is a fundamental problem, but this problem is a result. It is a result of the Kurdish genocide war. The economy was destroyed by the war. When we say this, we are not saying that Turkey’s economic problems, the poverty and hunger of society should not be on the agenda, that the government and the regime should not be exposed through this, that opposition should not be made on this basis. Of course, this should also be done. But CHP is conducting politics in a very opportunist, extremely liberal line without pushing this regime, this power too much.

They do not make an opposition policy that responds to the expectations of society. The most fundamental problem in Turkey is the unsolved Kurdish question. It is the reason for all these problems and the reason why the state has collapsed. They have collapsed the state with all its institutions in order to liquidate the Kurds and bring the Kurdish genocide policies to a conclusion. They condemned society to poverty and hunger. The war, the Kurdish question, is at the center of this. The CHP did not voice a single word, a single sentence, against the isolation of the Rêber Apo. What is the CHP’s attitude towards isolation? There is great lawlessness here. The law of Turkey, the law of the state, is not being applied. CHP always talks about justice and law. But what justice and law are they talking about? If the law is not applied in Imrali, how will you bring the law to Turkey? How will you apply the law in Turkey?

The fundamental problem in Turkey is the terrible war of genocide, based on Kurdish denial and extermination. The CHP does not show a stance and does not voice a single word against the war. It does not have a single policy for the solution of the Kurdish question. A party that has no policy and no opposition to Turkey’s fundamental problems cannot make a radical opposition and cannot wage a radical struggle against this fascist government. The CHP has failed in this regard. You can’t really talk much about the CHP as an opposition. There are discussions of change on the CHP’s agenda. There are slogans of changing CHP, changing Turkey. The CHP is the party that founded this state. The founding philosophy and ideology of this state is the founding philosophy and ideology of the CHP. Without updating this founding philosophy and ideology, without changing and overcoming this monist, centralist, denialist, and exterminationist founding philosophy and ideology, the CHP cannot renew itself and therefore cannot renew Turkey. Now they are holding a statute convention in Sewas (tr. Sivas); afterward they will hold a program convention. They will restructure the CHP; they will go for a new change. They have already made some changes. For example, equal representation. This is the result of a struggle for democratic politics. If today the CHP is discussing equal representation, tomorrow the CHP will also have to discuss the co-chairmanship system in the municipalities. Democratic politics and the struggle for freedom are changing everyone. But beyond that, how will the CHP really change? What kind of program and what kind of strategy will the CHP put forward for the Kurdish question?

It is also important that the charter and program congress was held in Sewas. There was the historic Sewas Congress before the War of Independence. And before the war of independence, a Kurdish-Turkish alliance was established by this congress. Through the joint struggle of Turks and Kurds and other communities of different identities living in Turkey, the independence war was won.

Today, there are as many graves of Kurdish sons in Canakkale as there are graves of Turkish sons. Kurds also paid a great price in the establishment of Turkey and the Republic. Therefore, Turkey is a common homeland. It is the common homeland of Turks, Kurds, and all the other peoples living in Turkey. In this sense, it is meaningful to hold the convention in Sewas. Maybe it is also a message against Ahlat; we don’t know. The CHP may also be sending such a message to its own people. But the content of this message is important; its implementation is important.

The constitution of 1921, which was made in Turkey after the Sewas Congress, was a democratic constitution. It accepted autonomy, especially autonomy in Kurdistan. Now, if the CHP wants change, transformation, “New Turkey with a new CHP,” then the CHP must update its founding philosophy and ideology. In the second century of the Republic, the CHP should fight for the democratic solution of the Kurdish question and democratize Turkey. It should aim for power with this mentality. Otherwise, neither the CHP will change, and therefore neither – as the CHP puts it – will Turkey change. In other words, if there is to be change, it must be on this basis.

To turn to another aspect towards the end of our interview; how do you assess Turkey’s current foreign policy, especially in relation to Syria? How would you elaborate on the change in relations with Egypt?

Until recently, when Erdoğan spoke of Sisi, he always insulted him and tried to throw sticks between his legs. He has called him all sorts of disgraceful names, but now they have suddenly sat down together. This didn’t come out of nowhere, of course, but it has a reason. It also has to do with the deterioration of the Turkish government and the constant defeats in the fight against the Kurdish freedom movement. Erdoğan is trying to make good relations with all the countries in the region in order to take advantage of them. This is the one main reason for his meeting with Sisi.

In the Eastern Mediterranean, during the period when relations with Egypt were deteriorating, Egypt made very serious progress in the Eastern Mediterranean. It created a big area of dominance. Energy lines and agreements were made, and Turkey was kept out of them. That is how Sisi is discussed in Turkey, and now accordingly they say, “We need to be included in this equation somehow. We need to take the initiative in the Eastern Mediterranean again. Therefore, we need to negotiate with Egypt.” Indeed, Turkey has not been very much involved in the projects and equations to be formed, especially on the Red Sea-Eastern Mediterranean; it has been kept outside of them. That was the main reason why Turkey was behind the October 7 Hamas attack. It was based on sabotaging these plans. Another dimension is that through Sisi, Turkey actually wants to soften Damascus on the basis of their interests and policies. On the basis of Kurdish genocide policies, he is trying to motivate Assad through Sisi to make Damascus fight against the Kurds and take a hostile position. He is trying to get him to take a position. This is the main reason. It is conducting a genocide attack against the Kurds. It is also conducting a neo-Ottoman policy, an expansionist policy in the region. Egypt historically has a very important place among the Arab countries. It is a state that has always been in a leading position. In this sense, Erdoğan is making an effort to neutralize and silence Egypt. This is closely related to the relations with Damascus.

Now it is carrying out the same effort with Russia. Russia also attaches importance to relations with Turkey due to the Ukraine War. It needs trade with Turkey. It is trying to reduce Turkey’s support for Ukraine. Turkey is a NATO country. In this way, it is trying to balance NATO, the Western bloc, especially America, and the rest of the world. In its own way, it is also pursuing policy in Russia. Russia carries out its Syria policy by taking Turkey’s interests into consideration. It is also looking out for Syria’s interests. Now it is conducting a policy towards the Kurds based on all these interests. It does not want to completely antagonize the Kurds against Russia. It is trying to carry out a balancing policy on its own. Turkey, on the other hand, wants Russia to take more positions against the Kurds. Russia’s current policy is as follows: Russia wants Rojava to surrender to the regime, and it wants Turkey to update the Adana agreement in order to solve the problem of North and East Syria together with the regime. They want to prevent Turkey from acting alone and only according to its own interests. They want that they do it together with Syria. When Turkey updates the Adana agreement, it wants to add a lot to it. It wants to get many more concessions. It aims to completely liquidate the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, liquidate the Rojava Revolution, and genocide the Kurds. It is also trying to establish its hegemony over Syria. It has already dragged Syria into chaos for years. When we talk about North and East Syria, we also need to consider the US. The US wants North and East Syria to surrender to Turkey and to the KDP. The various international policies directed against the forces and peoples of North and East Syria are all very dirty.

Russia is an important power in Syria. It has established a serious basis and has very good relations with the regime. It is the crucial factor that enables the survival of the regime. This is a fact. It is also a fact that it has very good relations with Turkey. But the Kurds should not be sacrificed to these dirty relations of interest. The peoples of Syria should not be sacrificed to this. This is not in Russia’s interest, nor is it in the interest of the people of Russia. What is right is for the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria and the Assad regime to reconcile and come to an agreement. It should be resolved through negotiations on the basis of the democratization of Syria. Turkey’s genocidal, occupying, annexationist and expansionist policies must be opposed. These should not be allowed any longer. It is not to be a partner in these policies any longer. This must be put an end to.

Turkey is conducting a dirty policy and wants to take advantage of everyone. Russia is an influential power in Syria and has a very important dominant weight in BRICS. They may probably accept Turkey as a member. The world's conditions have changed. There is no single centered world system anymore. Multiple power centers have emerged and even more are emerging. At this stage of the Third World War, it is becoming more evident that multiple power centers will emerge. The political system of the 20th century has collapsed. International institutions all over the world are bankrupt. This is one of the main reasons why the UN is so ineffective, why international institutions are so ineffective. Now they want to strengthen NATO again. Because it does not have the strength it once had. It got weak.

The political system of the 20th century, with all its alliance structures, experienced a serious collapse and bankruptcy. In the 21st century, in this new phase of the Third World War – this is now a very important phase and a final phase – the region will be redesigned. The political balance in the region will be re-established. Multiple power centers are emerging in the world. There is no longer a world based on blocs and rigid things like it was during the Cold War and in the 20th century.

Multiple power centers are emerging. Turkey is now acting according to this reality. It says, “I can be in NATO; I can create my own agenda for candidacy in the EU, but I can also be in BRICS; I can develop alliances and policies in the Middle East, Asia, and Africa, and I can benefit from everyone.” Particularly now, one of the main goals of this is the effort to benefit more from Russia in ensuring the Kurdish genocide and liquidating the Rojava Revolution. Turkey is fighting against the freedom movement with the support of the whole world. It is waging a war against the Kurds. This war will not yield any results. This brings more destruction for Turkey. As we have stated before, and as Rêber Apo has expressed very well, the Turk cannot exist through the absence of the Kurd. A new Turkish century cannot be created through the genocide of the Kurds. If there are no Kurds in Mesopotamia, there can be no Turks in Anatolia. With this policy, with the Kurdish genocide policy, with this expansionist policy, Turkey is leading to great destruction.

Is there anything else you would like to mention at the end?

I would like to highlight the importance of the ecological struggle as one of the most fundamental struggles of our age. Our planet is being destroyed. Our country is being destroyed, plundered, and devastated. The geography with all its culture, history, and everything is being destroyed. The basis of human life is destroyed. We cannot survive without this planet, without its water, soil, air, and sun. Therefore, the struggle for ecology is very important. And right now there is great ecological destruction in Turkey. There is great ecological destruction in Kurdistan as part of the genocide. There is a policy of plunder in Turkey. Most recently, a person was murdered in Hopa. In order to intimidate the ecology movement, the environmental struggle, and break the will of the people, they are carrying out these massacres. Society must never take a step back. A united self-defense and ecology movement must develop in Kurdistan and Turkey. A strong struggle must be waged. And this struggle must be united. Otherwise, there will be no clean soil, no clean water, no clean air, and no trees left for society and human beings to live with. This is one of the reasons for the madness in society. All cities are concreted. There is no green, no clean air, no oxygen. Both economic destruction and environmental destruction disrupt the nature, genetics, psychology, and spiritual structure of society. It makes people cease to be human and society cease to be a society. So, at the end, I want to call for a stronger and more united ecological struggle.