In the third part of this interview, PKK Executive Committee member Duran Kalkan said that "the Kurdish people, as its freedom forces, have eaten the bread and drunk the water of the Palestinian people. We have also eaten the bread and drunk the water of the Lebanese people, especially the Shiite community. They are our brothers and sisters. We deeply share their pain."

The first part of this interview can be read here, and the second here.

The Turkish Republic has still not recovered from the shock of the historic action in Ankara conducted by guerrillas Rojhat and Erdal on 1 October 2023. In this context, we would like to ask you about the current situation of guerrilla warfare.

It is indeed the anniversary of a historic sacrifice. As you pointed out, the AKP-MHP, the whole of Turkey has still not been able to recover from the shock of the action in Ankara. 1 October 2023, was a great act of heroism, an act of sacrifice. Of course, not only that. Also in the previous year, on September 26th, there was the action of the comrades Ruken and Sara in Mersin. The heroism of Mersin and the heroism of Ankara merged with each other. And while it gave hope to everyone, to all the oppressed, it also shocked the fascist, colonialist, and genocidal forces.

We must always remember, embrace, and salute these actions on their anniversary. These heroic acts – and this is what is really called being superhuman – have happened many times in the Kurdish struggle for freedom. But the two mentioned actions have been the most prominent actions of recent years, actions that give us all hope and faith and draw us all into the struggle. I commemorate with respect, love, and gratitude comrades Rojhat and Erdal, comrades Sara and Ruken, and the heroic martyrs of the HPG and YJA-Star who fought sacrificially in Zap, Avashin, Metina, Khakurke, and all over Kurdistan. Every day we give martyrs because we are waging a great war. The world is at war. We are forced to wage it in order to exist and live free. Otherwise, freedom is not easily achieved. Democracy is not easily achieved. Preserving your existence and living can only be realized through struggle, and only a sacrificial struggle. I salute all the commanders and fighters of the HPG and YJA STAR and salute their success.

The action of comrades Rojhat and Erdal gave a new direction and showed everyone the truth face of this struggle and of the enemy. The previous year was guided by the actions of the comrades Sara and Ruken. They symbolize the realities that determine our struggle. These are the truths that guide us. We – as a movement, as a people, as all guerrilla forces – saw and found the truth in this heroic stance and their successful actions. The Kurdistan freedom guerrillas continue their path. It continues this path all over northern Kurdistan and the Medya Defense Areas. There are actions every day in Zap, Avashin, Metina, and Khakurke. There are daily activities on Mount Cudi, Mount Amediye, and Mount Bahar, in the resistance areas of Metina and the various parts of Khakurke, as well as in Heftanin. The guerrilla resistance continues to develop and deepen. At the same time, the attacks by the Turkish state also continue.

Due to the betrayal of the KDP and now also the support of the Iraqi government, they are trying to continue their attacks, and since July 3rd, they have intensified their efforts in the framework of their invasion and annexation.

The state of their war is that they carry with them those who try to sell the Medya Defense Zones and a large part of southern Kurdistan to the fascists of the AKP-MHP and the Turkish state. The war continues with all its violence, intensity, and depth. It continues primarily in northern Kurdistan. From time to time, our Central Headquarters Command (NPG) also provides information and gives statements. The other day, my comrade Haki made some evaluations in this regard. He said that the guerrilla resistance is everywhere. In every resistance, the AKP-MHP fascism has great losses, but they hide them, conceal them. He was elaborating on this more broadly. There is war everywhere.

As he pointed out, from Bagok to all parts of Amed, the whole Botan area, there were clashes everywhere during this period. There are attacks and clashes all the way to Serhat. The fascist regime is constantly under attack, so there are military mobilizations under the name of operations. Against these fascist, colonialist, genocidal AKP-MHP attacks, it is the guerrilla’s heroic stance and struggle that defends life. The state destroys all kinds of moral values and attacks even children. They say that the number of missing children in Turkey is more than the population of some countries of the United Nations. Where do these missing children go? What is done to them? Are their organs sold? Are they used as slaves? Are they raped by the male-dominated mentality and system? This is a real situation in this country. Prostitution and drugs are deliberately spread everywhere. In Colemerg (tr. Hakkari), gangs have been established. There used to be gangs in the past in order to keep society under control in Kurdistan. The Turkish colonialism used to give various districts to specific families and organized gangs there. For example, we are talking about the struggle in Sewreg (tr. Siverek), where the struggle of the PKK began.

Celal Bucak was the leader of such a gang. In Sirnak, Alixan Tatar was such a gang leader. These were all specially trained by the state. Now again, they continue their special warfare by developing such gangs. One should not be surprised by this. The question is, what needs to be done? A struggle is necessary. By understanding correctly what kind of power the AKP-MHP fascism, the Turkish state, is, we must fight against it in order to live and to achieve a free and democratic life. Everything one wants to achieve can only be achieved through struggle. Thirty years ago, when they could not defeat or crush the guerrilla struggle, they burned, demolished, and destroyed thousands of villages, especially in the region of Botan. They dehumanized rural areas. Now they are doing basically the same, by building mines, dams, and everything on every mountain.

Currently, they are building yet another dam in Sirnak. They will drown all the historical village areas of Botan that have been inhabited for centuries, or even millennia. Thirty years ago they wanted to destroy the villages; now they want to destroy nature and, like this, achieve results against the guerrillas. They are risking this much. We must take care of them and fight against them. We need more awareness, more organization, and a more effective struggle using richer methods. We must be more courageous, more sacrificial. If we really want to achieve a free life, we must become freedom fighters. We must make every area of life a struggle for freedom. This is absolutely necessary. This is always necessary. This is the truth and beauty of life. If there is to be life, it will either be free or not, Rêber Apo said. Living freely can only be achieved through such a struggle.

On the other hand, the resistance in the Medya Defense Areas has left the Turkish state stranded. It has reached a dead end there and is locked in. It was said that it would come, lock the guerrilla in, and finish it. But now look at it. They are locked and finished. As mentioned before, they have begged the CM of the CoE and got permission to continue for one more year. They themselves have actually seen their failure. Even if they don’t admit it, even if they don’t say it openly, they have failed. They have been fighting on one hill for three years and cannot capture it. Our people in southern Kurdistan should follow this reality.

The resistance in the Medya Defense Areas is the resistance of all Kurdistan, the resistance of humanity, the resistance of free life. All humanity must embrace those resisting in Zap, Metina, and Khakurke. They are defending southern Kurdistan, defending its honor, defending its freedom, and defending its existence. Everyone says that southern Kurdistan will come to its end. Our people of southern Kurdistan, intellectuals, politicians, youth, women, and laborers should not remain silent against this; they should be brave. They should raise their voices a little more.

It is said that there will be elections in southern Kurdistan on October 20th. We don’t know if it will really happen or not. But anyway, what is important is that this is an important opportunity to hold the fascist, colonialist, and genocidal attacks to account. People should not say, “What can I do? I have nothing.” They should say “stop” to these occupying, annexing, genocidal attacks. They must say “stop” to the government that opened the door to this. The opportunity is in their hands. In fact, the elections can be a declaration of will. The patriotism of southern Kurdistan should be expressed through it.

The people can show what kind of patriotic society southern Kurdistan is, how it fought against the genocidal attacks of Saddam’s fascism in the past, and what kind of stance it has now against the AKP-MHP fascist aggression and those who collaborate with it. That it is in favor of Kurdish freedom, existence, and will. The people must be able to make such a declaration of will. It is indeed a very important and historical opportunity. We believe that on October 20, the people of southern Kurdistan will teach a historical lesson to both the occupying, aggressive forces and those who collaborate and serve them.

After the war in Kurdistan, I would now like to talk about the war in the Middle East in general. After Gaza, Israel has been targeting Lebanon in particular over the last week or two. What can you tell us about this war and generally about the current developments in the context of the Third World War?

Yes, this is correct; also, the anniversary of the beginning of the Gaza war is approaching. The beginning of this war undoubtedly shocked everyone in the world. And now, a little less than a year later, there were similar attacks against Lebanon, and the same shocking situation is happening again. We have already evaluated this war on many occasions. Immediately after the war started, we pointed out the reasons for it, its aims, the forces waging the war, and how this war should be approached. What did we say back then? We said that Lebanon would be next. This was not unpredictable. But when we said this, we didn’t think that a war of this level would take place in Lebanon. We really didn’t think it would. We thought that the right lessons would be learned from the Gaza war, that the warring forces would approach it a little more correctly, and that such brutality would not take place in Lebanon. But that was incorrect.

Hezbollah could not show such an attitude, and Iran could not prevent it. Actually, it had an attitude in the Gaza war. Based on that, we actually thought that Iran was prudent and would not allow this. We don’t know if Iran really wanted this to happen or if it was powerless to prevent it. The newly elected president spoke about the unity of the ummah. “Hezbollah cannot fight alone,” he said. This needs to be evaluated correctly. Who has divided the ummah for centuries? The forces of power and the nation-state have torn it apart. And there is not only the unity of the ummah. If you are talking about unity within the ummah, then, of course, the Christians will demand unity under the Messiah and the Jews will also demand their unity. We need to want the unity of everyone, the unity of all humanity.

We need to overcome this religionism. Religionism and nationalism have ravaged the Middle East for 100 years, 200 years. They are the main reasons for all these ravaging wars. The only focus lies on the destruction of the other, not on co-existence. This is wrong! If one doesn’t believe in democracy, then one should at least believe in the brotherhood of all religions. One must convince himself that all people have the right to live together and in peace. Such an understanding of life must be upheld. First of all, all religions must abandon this approach that they can only exist if all others are destroyed. The essence of basically any religion, as we know it, is the rejection of this. Religions that have begun to strive for power have developed into this. They merged with nationalism. With the nationalism of the nation-state, they have turned everyone into enemies and everywhere into a field of conflict. As a result, the people of Gaza were sacrificed. And now, the people of Lebanon are being sacrificed.

We have said it before; we have received a lot of support from the Palestinian people. As the Kurdish people, as its freedom forces, we have eaten the bread and drunk the water of the Palestinian people. We have also eaten the bread and drunk the water of the Lebanese people, especially the Shiite community. They are our brothers and sisters. We deeply share their pain. What shall one say? This should never have happened. It is a crime in itself that this was not prevented. Who is responsible for the situation? A horrible crime is being committed. Who wanted war in Lebanon the most? It was the AKP-MHP; it was Turkey.

The AKP’s media and those who are invited to talk there were talking 24 hours a day about how Hezbollah and Israel would and should fight, how Iran and Israel would and should face each other in Lebanon and make war. Now they have made them fight. In Lebanon, I guess their wishes have been fulfilled; they have succeeded. Are they satisfied? Now those who did it seem to have gone limp because they know of the crime they committed.

Iran is still a little more careful in its own way. But why has Lebanon become like this, and why is there such a violent war? It is shocking to humanity. Israel’s attacks are brutal. Turkey says it opposes it, but here are the attacks carried out by the Turkish Republic. They have exploded pagers and radios and are relying on other similar technologies. The Turkish state has been using these for ten years. We know these things. Now we have experienced the confusion that all humanity has seen in Lebanon, that Hezbollah circles have experienced. We have suffered similar experiences a lot. Our central headquarters has repeatedly made statements, pointing out that such a technique is being used. Technology and weapons that violate the laws of war and constitute human rights crimes are used regularly.

The worst thing is that this technique, that is now used for crimes against humanity, was originally invented for the benefit of humanity. And the whole world has now seen in Lebanon that this technology is not used for the benefit of the people but for war and destruction. This technology always primarily serves war and only secondarily is being for anything else. As long as the power system and the system of nation states exist, technical production will always follow this principle. We have explained this many times, but nobody emphasized it. But now everyone is seeing what is happening in Lebanon. Israel is launching a shocking attack. So much so that no one can stand against it. It uses all kinds of technologies and means. Technologies that should be forbidden. It didn’t use to do that in the past because there were restrictions. But now…, this is what the world has become. This is the situation of the Third World War, and this is the point it has reached. Everyone should be aware of this. The fascist AKP-MHP does it the same way and has used it the most throughout the last years. From chemical weapons to tactical nuclear bombs, they use everything. Some of those still have not been used yet in Lebanon. For example, UAVs were not used, and UCAVs used to be banned. It was forbidden both to operate and to sell them. Now no one is preventing it, and the Turkish state is the one that uses it the most against the Kurdish guerrillas.

Why did this war break out? This is a war that has been going on for a hundred years, a hundred and twenty years. The First World War did not end. The October Revolution did not conclude according to the logic of that war; it concluded according to its own logic. The Second World War continued in the same way. Now, through the Third World War, they actually want to complete what was left over from the First World War. The system of capitalist modernity wants to reshape itself according to the results that have been emerging for a hundred years. This is what is being done through Israel. NATO, the US, and Europe are behind Israel. This is very clear. They have all kinds of power and means at their disposal, and they are carrying out a destructive attack for their own interests and to open their energy route. This is a war for dominance over energy resources and economic corridors. This war has developed as a struggle between various circles of interest and powers.

Of course, the peoples suffer the damage. In the past, these powers used to fight themselves. Now they are making their proxies fight. And what will be the result? In the 1990s and 2000s, they waged this war for 15 to 20 years to seize the Persian Gulf. Since 2010, they have been waging this war to seize the Eastern Mediterranean. They want to open an energy route from India through the Gulf, Israel, and Cyprus to Greece. This is the US plan, and NATO is in agreement with this. These attacks aim to pave the way for the energy route and economic corridor. The obstacle in Lebanon has been removed. Probably it cannot be extended any further. We don’t know how it will end. Syria may not be much of an obstacle in their plans if it learns lessons from the current developments.

In conclusion, I will say the following, and I have stated it several times before, the peak of it will be Cyprus, and the center of this war is Turkey. Turkey is not a state that was formed according to the outcome of the First or Second World War. Turkey is a state formed on the basis of the October Revolution in Russia and the existence of the Soviet Union. After the collapse of the Soviet Union and the start of the Third World War, a new Middle East is being shaped according to the energy routes and economic corridors created. Turkey is outside of this. Therefore, this Turkey will be changed. It is Turkey that is most opposed to the system it is a part of, that contradicts the system the most, that is a party to the Third World War. Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] wrote and warned about this many times; 15 years ago, 20 years ago. He called attention to this and said that great disasters would befall them. They did not listen. Now AKP-MHP fascism has put Turkey into a disaster. Cyprus will be next, the Turkish border will be next, and the war will intensify in Turkey. What will the Turkish state do? Either it will become a complete servant, surrender, become a satellite, lose everything, or if it tries to defy, they will tear it apart. Rêber Apo said, “They will divide Turkey into forty pieces”.

In the globalization of the capitalist modernity system, or in the global capitalist modernity system, there is no place for the present Turkish state. It has to look for a way out. Therefore, Rêber Apo suggested an alternative. “This nation-state nationalism and religionism will tear you apart,” he said. In response to this, he proposed a democratic nation and democratic confederalism as a solution to overcome those in the Middle East and Turkey. This is a very clear and open situation. But this was not listened to. No one took that into consideration. The only idea that will save Turkey from the disaster that AKP-MHP has dragged Turkey into is Rêber Apo’s idea of democratic confederalism. It is the creation of a democratic Turkey based on Kurdish freedom. The only power that will ensure this is Rêber Apo. The only person who can save the Kurdish people from the disaster they have been dragged into, from the disaster the AKP-MHP has dragged them into, from the disaster the current state has dragged them into, is Rêber Apo. They have put him under a system of oppression, torture, and genocide so that no information about him has been received for 43 months. They want to suffocate him. However, it is these thoughts that have the power to save Turkey.

To conclude, those who love Turkey, intellectuals, politicians, artists, women, young people, and true patriots of Turkey must be aware of this reality. Demanding the physical freedom of Rêber Apo should be the work of the patriots and democrats of Turkey more than the Kurds. It is a solution that will serve the democratization of Turkey as much as the liberation of Kurdistan, a solution that will save Turkey as much as it will save the Kurds. Therefore, the people, particularly the women and the youth of Turkey, must oppose the Imrali torture and isolation system as much as the Kurds.

The peoples of Turkey, those who love Turkey, the workers and laborers should demand the physical freedom of Rêber Apo as much as the Kurds. If they want to avoid this catastrophe, there is only one way: democratization of Turkey based on Kurdish freedom. This means the overthrow of AKP-MHP fascism, nationalism, and religionism. These approaches that say that no force can harm the country and that the system is indestructible – they are disastrous. What happened to Lebanon should be a clear lesson. The law of the jungle prevails in this world. Whoever has power is whoever has power. You have power; you oppress the Kurds; you do what you want to the Kurds. What will you do if someone with more power than you tries to do the same to you tomorrow? Will they do it? They surely will. It is not a power only in your hands. The AKP-MHP is responsible for this.

Turkey must mobilize for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. There will be a rally in Amed on October 13. 50 thousand people, 100 thousand people will come to Amed. There will be rallies in Istanbul, Izmir, Ankara, the Black Sea region, in Cukurova, everywhere. Society will demand an end to this policy because there is no other way. The only solution that will save the Middle East from this disaster is the development of a democratic nation against this religionism and nationalism, against this nation-state mentality.

Again, the only solution is the democratic nation and democratic confederalism. The only thing that will save Turkey from the point into which it has been dragged is the democratization based on Kurdish freedom and the acceptance of the democratic nation. For this, Rêber Apo said, “Give me the opportunity, and I will fix everything in one week.” The society of Turkey must stand up to save Turkey and for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. This is the way to save the Middle East from these disasters. A lot of time has passed; there have been massacres and bloodshed. We don’t know how this will be cleaned up. But we have said it before: our war is not such a war.

We are against all these wars of interest. We are for the fight based on legitimate self-defense, waged for the existence, democracy, and freedom of peoples. This is the fight we are waging; this is the war we are waging. The point where the ongoing World War has reached is a dangerous point. One needs to be careful. For this reason, we must develop our struggle for freedom everywhere. We must grow and strengthen our guerrilla. We must definitely strengthen our self-defense everywhere. Most importantly, we must carry Rêber Apo’s solution of democratic nation and democratic confederalism everywhere. We must envision liberation together with all neighboring peoples.

On this basis, once again, I share the pain of the Lebanese people and salute everyone who resists these cruel attacks that harm the peoples.