Mustafa Karasu, member of the KCK (Kurdistan Communities Union) Executive Council, spoke about the concerns arising from the lack of steps the government said it would take after Abdullah Öcalan's call on 27 February. In reality, no steps have been taken. 

The first part of the interview can be read here

Speaking about Abdullah Öcalan's call and the associated process regarding the Kurdish question, could you elaborate on the current situation?

Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] has made a call. In fact, [MHP leader] Devlet Bahçeli had said: "Let him make a call that the organization will be dissolved, that the war will stop, then the ‘Right to Hope’ will come into play." So Rêber Apo made the call.

He called both for the organization to dissolve itself and for the armed struggle to stop. But for this, he said that a congress must be convened and that he must direct this congress. These issues were discussed and evaluated in Imrali. Comrades Besê and Abbas have already drawn attention to this. Within a week or ten days, Rêber Apo’s conditions were to change with the call. But no steps were taken. So, what are we to believe? It was said that the call should be made and the so-called ‘Right to Hope’ would come into play. The call was made, but the ‘Right to Hope’ did not come into play. It was said that the conditions in Imrali would change; they did not. It was said that Rêber Apo would regain free working and living conditions; this did not happen either.

This situation raises concerns about what the AKP-MHP government aims for and calculates. The Kurdish question is a big question, issues such as the silence of weapons, the organization’s self-dissolution… These are not simple. They themselves have been a problem for the Turkish state for 50 years. Demirel also called it "the biggest rebellion in a thousand years". So now, is this how they will approach it? It is not a situation to be approached with such narrow, simple, ordinary party interests. We were waiting, and so was Rêber Apo. We expected steps to be taken; we expected the talks to continue. What happened? No delegations are going to Imrali. This seems to be a stalling, a holding pattern. Actually, there are promises. Both Bahceli’s promise and various promises that had been given in Imrali are not being fulfilled. It is again us that have to act cold-blooded. Rêber Apo is also calm and patient. But there is a limit. This is not the way to approach a people’s party, leader, and organization. This is not a serious attitude. Their words have no value. They themselves were saying, 'Let’s speed it up!', 'Let’s get quick results.' Where is it? There is great suspicion. From the very beginning, we said that we had our doubts about the approach of the Turkish state. The fact that no steps have been taken has increased these doubts even more. Maybe we will wait a little longer and see if something will develop. But if steps are not taken again, if promises are not fulfilled, we cannot wait like this. We will have to evaluate differently. We will reveal more clearly what this approach means.

One has to laugh when the AKP-MHP fascist government keeps saying ‘legislation’ when it comes to abolishing the Imrali torture system. What kind of ‘legislation’ is that supposed to be? If it suits them, it is applied, or amended if necessary, but if it doesn’t suit them, they pretend there is no legislation. They don’t listen to anyone, neither to the European Union nor to the Constitutional Court in Turkey. When they talk about ‘legislation’, it is a mockery. Now they say, for example, that the ‘Right to Hope’ is not in it. Turkey is a country in the Council of Europe; it has accepted the supremacy of the laws of the European Union over its own laws, and it has accepted that international laws are supra-constitutional.

The European Court has already said, “Implement the Right to Hope”. It had said this long before. If they want anything to happen, they can do it immediately if they want to. Which legislation will prevent them? Both Rêber Apo and our movement always say this. And this is also generally expressed in the democratic arena. Laws need to be passed immediately. We have said this, and so has the opposition within the state. This must be taken to parliament. The parliament is above everything; it makes the laws, and it has to decide. But in reality, the laws that Erdoğan wants are passed; the ones he doesn’t want are not. What the palace says goes. Almost all the opposition say that they wouldn’t refuse the change. They point out that even the constitutional articles can be changed. All parties demand the problem be solved in parliament. So this “legislative issue” that the government is bringing up is just an excuse, a distraction.

It is clear that those who oppose the ceasefire are those who want the war to continue. In fact, there is a certain group in Turkey that wants the war to continue. They benefit from rent and the pretext of "fighting terrorism". As long as the war continues, some people gain rent. They also use war as an excuse to suppress the opposition and terrorize everyone. Even the legal parties are labeled as “associated with terrorism”. There is also this aspect of the issue. Those who do not want to lose these justifications want the war to continue. Now Rêber Apo has made a call, and the PKK will convene its congress, dissolve itself, and stop the armed struggle. For this, two things must happen. First, safe conditions must be ensured for the congress to convene. In other words, the attacks must stop. Second, Rêber Apo must participate in the congress and guide it. No party can be dissolved without a congress. There is no other way. Even if, for example, I were to declare now, “I dissolved the PKK”, without a congress decision, it would be meaningless. A bilateral ceasefire is necessary. There can be no congress when the war is in full swing and attacks continue. The fact that they do not accept this means they don’t want the PKK to be dissolved. The dissolution of the PKK could happen. The armed struggle can be abandoned. But conditions are needed to do these things.

The comrades have said it many times; the founder of this party is Rêber Apo. Party means ideology and politics, and it is the leader who shapes it. Today, the PKK is struggling in line with Rêber Apo’s ideological line. It has changed itself in many ways. It changed itself in the 1990s, accepted the new paradigm, and now it will change again. Instead of armed struggle, other methods of struggle will come into play. It will be about democratic politics. Therefore, the call was very important. We acted responsibly; we immediately responded to that call; we stated that we accepted the call of Rêber Apo. We said we would fulfill the requirements. What more can we do? We fulfill the requirements; the other side does not. We did not say that we would not dissolve the PKK or stop the armed struggle. But for that to happen, a PKK congress must be held, and Rêber Apo must attend. The current approach is not right.

Devlet Bahçeli said: "Go to Malazgirt and hold the congress there." This is not serious. They do not stop the war; all their attacks continue. They would try to kill every PKK member they see. There can be no congress like this. Therefore, Devlet Bahceli’s approach is not serious. He didn’t follow his own call either. He said, "Let Apo make a call, then the ‘Right to Hope’ will be implemented." There is nothing in the middle. So there is an environment that wants the war to continue.

Our people trust Rêber Apo; they trust the party. The people have no doubt that this process can only be led by Rêber Apo. They know that Rêber Apo is acting in the interests of the people and that he trusts this movement. As a matter of fact, in Newroz, the people embraced the call with all their might. However, the Turkish state, and the AKP-MHP government’s failure to take any steps increases suspicion among the people and their international friends. We are cautious when it comes to the Turkish state. We want to move the process forward, but we are cautious. And we never stop being cautious. But being cautious does not mean not doing anything, not advancing a process, or not leading it to success. That is important for everyone.

Our intention is to enter a new period of struggle. It is about a new beginning. To continue with new ways and methods of struggle instead of the old ways and methods. Our paradigm is clear; there is no change in our program. With the new paradigm, we have abandoned the old statist, power-oriented mentality and moved to a mentality striving for freedom and democracy far from the state and power. Instead of the state, we chose democratic confederalism; we chose radical democracy and democratic autonomy. And a democratic society means an organized society; organizing the whole society means democratizing society. Democratization will develop on this basis.

Within this, all kinds of identities can approach each other on a democratic and equal basis. The people of Turkey and the Kurdish people will also approach each other on a democratic basis. A democratic society means all different parts of society approaching each other freely. Radical democracy is a democratic form of organization based on an organized society, and the same accounts for democratic confederalism. It is not a form of state; it is a social-political order based on the self-organization of society. Society builds its own system without waiting for the state.

What we want for the solution to the Kurdish question is clear. The Kurdish people have basic democratic demands; they have non-negotiable rights. Education in their mother tongue is a non-negotiable right; self-government is a non-negotiable right; they have their own identity. Our approach to the ways and methods by which these will be realized is also clear. These can be discussed in the new struggle process. But when no steps are taken, our people and their international friends have doubts: “Will these people make a democratic transformation? Will they build a democratic society?” Yes, these doubts are not unfounded. The government’s current approach prevents the democratic struggle; it shows that they are not willing to carry out the struggle within a democratic framework. Therefore, the suspicion that the people and their international friends had from the beginning continues, and no one can say that this suspicion is unjustified.

We want to carry out this process with Rêber Apo. We want to concretize the call put forward by Rêber Apo, convene the congress, and act in line with this call. We have no hesitation. We are confident in ourselves. In a new struggle process, we will wage a bigger and more effective struggle. We will expand society’s struggle for democracy. We are convinced that the Kurdish people and the democratic forces in Turkey will experience progress, not regression, when this call is fulfilled.

Speaking about the recent Newroz celebrations in Kurd​​​​​​​istan and​​​​​​​ abroad, What can you tell us about the significance of Newroz in general? And how do you assess the expression of this year’s festivities?

The festivities on the occasion of this year’s Newroz were indeed a peak. I’m not just saying this for the sake of saying it; it really was. The stance, excitement, enthusiasm, and embrace of society emerged beyond what we expected. That is why we are speaking of the ‘Newroz People’. That is why Rêber Apo gave the Kurdish people this title. By the people of Newroz, he means a people of resistance, a people who create themselves through resistance. The greater the power and impact of Newroz, the greater the expression of the reality of the people. Newroz and the people’s reality are intertwined. Because Newroz is the most fundamental cultural value of the Kurdish people. It is a value that keeps the passion for freedom alive.

In the 1970s, especially in northern Kurdistan, the foundation of Newroz was again prepared. The first true Newroz that I participated in was in 1977 in Dilok (tr. Antep). It was our first big Newroz. We piled tires on all the hills, on all the big intersections of Dilok, and then we simultaneously lit up the banks of the city and all the piles of tires. The people of Dilok who didn’t know about Newroz – whether Turkish or Kurdish – were surprised. Everyone was wondering what was going on, why there was fire all over the city. From that day to today, every year Newroz has grown, developing itself further, gaining more depth of meaning, and being embraced by a wider part of society. The Kurdish people have also grown and developed; their striving for freedom and democracy has strengthened and developed. This passion of Newroz also means the rise and deepening of the Kurdish people’s passion for freedom, for democracy, for justice, and their desire to live according to their own values. These people cannot be annihilated anymore, their history cannot be denied anymore, and their struggle cannot be prevented anymore.

That is why Newroz is not just a day. One has to look at what it means for Kurds, what it means for Kurdistan, and for all the peoples of the Middle East. With this year’s Newroz, the Kurdish people expressed that they are ready to be the pioneers of the struggle for freedom and democracy, not only for themselves but for all the Middle East. The passion for freedom, for democracy, and for justice for the people, the attitude of struggle against injustice… The fact that this has become so widespread in society, regardless of age, proves what level the Kurdish social reality has reached as a result of the tradition of Newroz and the decades of struggle.

Newroz in all parts of Kurdistan was very special this year. It was an indicator of the level reached by the results of fifty years of struggle. At the same time, there was a great embrace of the call made by Rêber Apo on February 27th. As we always say, the Newroz of each year is the struggle program of that year. It is like the annual people’s congress. In other words, there the people clarify how to fight that year and what the goals have to be. This year’s Newroz was all about the embracement and support of Rêber Apo’s message of February 27 by the Kurdish people. Rêber Apo’s call and the photo of Imrali motivated society, and a great energy emerged. It is Rêber Apo who has created this people’s reality. Everyone should appreciate and realize the values created by the PKK under the leadership of Rêber Apo. This is not something ordinary. We see what kind of 'Kurdish climate' there is in the Middle East. Without Rêber Apo, without this struggle, would there have been any gains in southern Kurdistan? Could achievements have been made in Rojava? When one talks about the greatness of Newroz, one needs to see what created this vitality and what the results of it are.