In the second part of her interview with Medya Haber TV, Besê Hozat, co-chair of the KCK (Kurdistan Communities Union) Executive Council, spoke about the ongoing ‘Process of Peace and Democratic Society’. The first part of this interview can be read here.

What stage has this process, referred to as both the ‘Process of Terror-Free Turkey’ and the ‘Process of Peace and Democratic Society’, reached, especially in light of recent geopolitical developments?

It would be fully wrong to define this process as the ‘Process of Terror-Free Turkey’ as the government tries to do. We reject this expression, this definition. This kind of discourse must be taken off the agenda. The name of this process is clear: it is the ‘Process of Peace and Democratic Society’. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan therefore named his call issued on February 27 the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’. This call was developed jointly with the state delegation by mutual agreement and consensus. Therefore, the state itself has accepted it as the ‘Process of Peace and Democratic Society’, that is, the name of the process. The slogan of ‘Terror-Free Turkey’ must be lifted. Otherwise, proper discussions cannot develop, and proper progress cannot be achieved in this process.

With the Israel-Iran war, the importance and value of this process has been revealed once again. The region is currently in the midst of a great inferno. Everything is burning fiercely. And now, after Iran, it is Turkey’s turn. That underlines the necessity of these discussions. It began in Gaza, turned to Lebanon and Syria, and reached Iran; now it is Turkey’s turn. The region is being redesigned. This is a process related to the redesign of the region. Therefore, it is necessary to have healthy discussions and to have them now. It is now necessary for the state and the government to take concrete steps.

As a movement, we have done what we had to do. We have taken every step. We responded positively to Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s call. We declared a ceasefire on March 1. Then, on May 5, we convened the 12th Congress of the PKK. We dissolved the PKK at the congress. We decided to end the armed struggle. We have now ended the armed struggle against Turkey. We are not waging armed struggle against Turkey anymore. Now Turkey, the Turkish state, must take action in response to this. It needs to take action. The state has to recognize the right to democratic politics for the people. It has to make legal and constitutional reforms. The political arena has to be opened so that those people who until now had used weapons against Turkey can engage in democratic politics in Turkey. They can do work in society.

But so far, no steps are being taken on this issue. There is no going back now. What else can be done by our side beyond stopping the armed struggle? Now it is time for the other side to take action. Without legal and constitutional reforms, how will the guerrillas in the mountains come down to the plains? How will they engage in democratic politics in the villages and cities? In order for them to engage in democratic politics, legal and constitutional reforms must be made, the political arena must be opened, and the right to democratic politics must be recognized so that the guerrillas can lay down their arms and go to villages and cities to engage in democratic politics.

What we are seeing right now is demagoguery. First, it was said that the congress should be held first; now it is said that the PKK should lay down its arms first, then they would look into setting up a commission in parliament… This shows that they have no serious intentions, no interest in truly creating a solution. If there were a genuine intention to find a solution, a mindset and policy for a solution, then immediately after the PKK dissolved itself and ceased armed struggle – that is, after making the decision to end and terminate it – a commission would be formed the very next day, the parliament would convene, the parliament would debate, and the necessary laws would be passed. It would pass a special law for the PKK, grant it political rights, and make legal and constitutional reforms, and the guerrillas would leave the mountains and engage in democratic politics in the villages and cities. In a serious state, a government with good intentions and a solution-oriented mindset would do this. How much time has passed since the congress that was held in the beginning of May? Now it is the end of June, and still there is nothing. This is unacceptable.

The other day, there was a conference in Istanbul: the ‘Opening the Path to Peace Conference’, which was truly an important conference. I followed it to a certain extent. Very valuable people participated, and there were important discussions. Perhaps the number of participants was small, but the content was of high quality. All opposition party leaders sent messages to the conference, making accurate assessments. Turkey cannot become democratic without resolving the Kurdish issue. For Turkey to become democratic, it must resolve the Kurdish issue on a democratic basis. Kurdish identity must be constitutionally recognized. Its existence and identity must be fully opened up to the political arena, the democratic political arena. The Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, must be physically freed. He must be enabled to actively engage in politics. He must be enabled to coordinate and guide the Process of Peace and Democratic Society. He was also present in those discussions. The main opposition party, the CHP, must fully embrace this process and participate in it in a very strong and active manner. If this process is strongly embraced by the opposition, civil society organizations, women, young people, Alevis, and all strata of society, and a strong struggle emerges in this sense, then we can definitely take this process out of the hands of this government. If this process is left to the current government, it will instrumentalize it, and no result will emerge. It is required for the entire society, and particularly the opposition forces, to strongly embrace this process, set the agenda, put forward projects for practical solutions, and develop an intensive debate and practical process.

Otherwise, there is still no concrete step in the current situation. One cannot talk about a complete deadlock, but one also cannot talk about a process that is going smoothly either. There is a process that is moving forward with great difficulty, with the struggle, efforts, and pressure of democratic circles, particularly the Kurds and the freedom movement, and there is a process that is keeping its warmth alive, especially with the great effort and struggle of the Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan.

The current government’s approach is not towards a democratic solution to the Kurdish issue or democratizing Turkey. It demands full surrender and does nothing else. We strongly criticize and reject this approach. This government has to take a serious approach.

The region is currently in a state of chaos, and it will eventually spread to Turkey. The only way for Turkey to save itself from this is through a strategic relationship and alliance with the Kurds. It is the democratic resolution of the Kurdish issue, the democratization of Turkey. It is for all strata of society living in Turkey to obtain their rights on the basis of free citizenship. Otherwise, a great catastrophe awaits Turkey. The fact that attacks on the opposition continue to intensify shows how unserious the government is about this process. It shows that there is no serious solution, no serious plan, policy, or project for the democratization of Turkey. If there were a genuine, serious intention for a democratization of Turkey, such heavy pressure and violence would not be exerted on the opposition. The democratic political arena would be fully opened.

There cannot be democracy in Amed (tr. Diyarbakir) when there is fascism in Istanbul. If there is fascism in Turkey, the Kurdish issue cannot be resolved democratically in Kurdistan. There can be no democracy in Kurdistan. This is impossible. This pressure on the opposition is causing suspicion and concern. Why would a government with good intentions resort to such measures? They say there is corruption in CHP municipalities. Is there no corruption in AKP municipalities? I propose that an independent commission should be established. This independent commission should include members from all parties. People from democratic legal circles should be included in this commission. It should launch a corruption investigation targeting all municipalities, municipalities of AKP, CHP, and other opposition forces alike. It should investigate all municipalities. It should examine them and subject them to scrutiny. We have experience in this regard in Kurdistan. Previously, the HDP’s municipalities were taken over by trustees. Now the same policy continues. With a new election, the municipalities were taken over again, and the ruins left by the trustees were uncovered. It was seen how the municipalities were plunged into debt and how they were ruined by corruption. They were all AKP trustees, AKP officials. AKP municipalities are drowning in corruption.

The Process of Peace and Democratic Society has begun. The way will be paved for democratic politics. All opposition and society will embrace this process so that it can reach a conclusion. The government is trying to create division and fragmentation within the opposition, deepening polarization in society, and creating great suspicion. They say that they will bring this process to a conclusion. They speak of “a Turkey without terrorism”. This phrase alone already reveals their mindset. Their mindset is revealed in their attacks on the opposition. They have to come to their senses. This state, this government, has to come to its senses. They can no longer deceive the Kurds. They can no longer deceive the Kurds with tricks. That era is over. They look at developments and adopt a policy according to the conjuncture. The Kurdish issue is a fundamental problem in Turkey. The fundamental reason for fascism in Turkey, the fundamental reason for authoritarianism, is the Kurdish issue itself. These are policies of genocide, policies of denial and annihilation. The path to democratization in Turkey lies in the democratic resolution of the Kurdish issue. It lies in the recognition of Kurdish identity. It lies in the recognition of Kurdish freedom and existence. That is how Turkey will democratize. This is possible with the opposition embracing this process and the whole society embracing it. They are suppressing and oppressing all these groups.

The opposition should not fall for these games, recognizing this reality. This is an important process. The Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Öcalan, has made tremendous efforts and sacrifices. So has the freedom movement, so have the Kurds, so have the democratic forces, and so have women. They have fought hard and made great sacrifices. In order to turn this process into a true solution process, everyone must strongly embrace it, intensify the struggle, and wage a united, collective struggle.

You have already touched on the escalations in the context of the war of the hegemonic powers to redesign the region; could you elaborate on that a little further? How do you assess the current geopolitical situation, in particular with its current focus on Iran?

The region is currently a burning ground. Blood is flowing in streams. There is major ecological destruction, cities are being leveled, and all the resources of society are being exploited and destroyed. In a word, it is horrific! But sadly, none of this is new. In fact, this process began with the Gulf War. It is a process that began in the 1990s, and since then it has gradually developed step by step. The intervention in Iraq, the intervention in Afghanistan, the attack on Gaza in the course of October 7, the subsequent attack on Lebanon and Syria, the civil war that began in Syria in 2011, the war that has been going on for years… All the developments in Iran are a continuation of a process that began in the 1990s. Also, the international conspiracy targeting Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan was part of this. That process was taken to a further stage, and then intervention in the region developed rapidly.

The intervention developed by the international powers and the capitalist hegemonic system in the region has reached a crucial level. This process must be evaluated as a very important stage of the Third World War. It is not separate from it. The region is being redesigned. The region is being redesigned based on the interests of capitalist, imperialist, global, and hegemonic capital. The political system in the region is being reshaped.

As the region is being redesigned and given a new form based on the interests of global hegemonic capital, closed, inward-looking, status quo, fascist nation-state systems are being dismantled. Because this nation-state structure does not serve the hegemonic capital system, it harms its interests. That is why they are dismantling it.

Now, one aspect of this plan of reshaping is Iran. The intervention in Iran must be evaluated within this context. The intervention in Iran is not simply taking place because “it is producing nuclear weapons”. These are justifications, pretexts. They intervened in Iraq with the very same justification, pretext. It is an intervention aimed at the state system in Iran. And now after that, it will be Turkey’s turn. Because this system has become a burden for the global imperialist hegemonic system. They are an obstacle to global capital. The same accounts for Libya, Syria, and Iraq. One has to look at this issue from a broad perspective. This war is a war to reorganize Iran. Even if this regime survives this intervention, it will not be able to survive for long in the process that follows. They have brought it to that point. Even if it survives, it will continue to exist for a while in a very weak state and position. But after that, it will change; it will have to change. This is a direct attack on the Iranian system and regime. It is an attack aimed at changing the regime. And its impact will be felt throughout the region.

The US has officially entered the war. From the beginning, there has been a Middle East intervention initiated by the US, the UK, and Israel. As a result of all these interventions, Israel, the core power of capitalist modernity in the region, is being made into the hegemonic power of the region. Israel’s influence throughout the region will continue to grow, and so will the influence of the US, the UK, and the West continue to grow. All the states and political systems in the Middle East will be integrated into the global system. That is their goal.

This will also affect Iraq, which is already in a state of great chaos. It has not been able to emerge from it. It seems that this chaos will deepen even further. Internal conflicts may come to the surface more. The same is true in other countries and regions. If Turkey does not evaluate the Process of Peace and Democratic Society correctly and does not take practical steps, Turkey will also be severely affected by this, and this process will truly begin in Turkey after Iran. That is why this process is important.

What has also become apparent through the process is that all nationalist, religious, and unitary nation-state systems are ultimately facing such destruction and decay. For example, there have been demands for freedom, democracy, rights, and justice in Iran for a long time. ‘Jin, Jiyan, Azadî’ was not just an uprising of the Kurds or women. All societies and peoples living in Iran, even those within the system, embraced it. Freedom was demanded. The Iranian regime turned a blind eye to all of them and suppressed them. It tried to counter them with executions. It tried to break their will and subdue society. With oppression, violence, and prisons. This created tremendous decay. As a result, the Mossad and the CIA were able to virtually conquer and occupy Iran from within. They have even set up drone depots inside the country. They have organized tens of thousands of agents.

They have recruited agents from within the state. They have taken over from within, like a Trojan horse. This level of decay is the result of this policy. If Iran had adopted a democratic policy, carried out fundamental democratic reforms, responded to the demands of women, responded to the demands of the Kurds, the Baluchis, all peoples, and responded to the demands of all strata of society; if it had truly carried out fundamental reforms and democratized, would tens of thousands of agents have worked against Iran, would they have been hostile? Would the Mossad, CIA, MIT, and all kinds of intelligence agencies have been able to effectively occupy the country from within? Would they take over the country? The real war was waged from within. Yes, Israeli warplanes and US warplanes did their part, but many assassinations were carried out from within. Starting with the Revolutionary Guards, the ideological cadres of the system were purged and destroyed. There is a terrible state of decay. That’s why no powerful answer to the situation emerges. Okay, society is not speaking out against the attacks because there is a very deep-rooted tradition of anti-Western sentiment in Iran. But that doesn’t mean it will always be that way. This regime has created tremendous anger and reaction in society. It seems difficult for it to survive. Even if it does survive, it seems very unlikely that it will last for long.

The Kurds have made their position clear. Of course, the Kurds will rely on their own strength, their own organization, and their own defense. The Kurds cannot secure their existence and freedom by relying on, trusting, or expecting any other power. I want to stress that the Kurds’ strategy of struggle is clear; it is the strategy of Democratic Nation. The Kurds have a common life project and understanding with all peoples. This was clearly seen in the statements made by PJAK. Also they are fighting with such a strategy. Therefore, we are striving to develop a common struggle, common organization, and common self-defense with all Iranian and Kurdish peoples. Only in this way can they protect themselves, defend themselves, and secure their existence and freedom. This is important.

The Kurds are a decisive, strategic force in this region. The Kurds live in a strategic point in the region. They carry out an organized struggle, relying on their own strength. The Kurds have the right to engage in politics and diplomacy, and they are engaging in politics, diplomacy, and tactical relations and alliance efforts. They develop strategic relationships with the people and civil society and try to benefit from the tactical relationships. In other words, they assess the situation and search for the biggest benefit for society.