In the second part of this interview, Duran Kalkan, member of the KCK Executive Council spoke about the work of the DEM Party delegation and what conditions are needed for Abdullah Öcalan to play his role. He added: "Öcalan strives for a solution based on the democratization of Turkey, and we are supporting this. A democratized Turkey will lead to a democratized Middle East. And a democratized Middle East will lead to progress in democratic and free life for humanity. We support this because we believe in it."

The first part of the interview can be read here.

How do you assess the delegation’s efforts? How do you understand the government’s stance? And especially in the context you just mentioned, what does it mean when Abdullah Öcalan says that he is ready to play his role if the conditions are met?

The members of the delegation are experienced. They have indeed carried out a prudent effort in the face of provocations in various media and by some irresponsible circles. And they announced their results, seemingly being positively optimistic, but they also expressed serious concerns. Their concerns were also seen during the negotiations. The AKP wing is causing the most concern. It seems as if they are not taking a serious approach. The rhetoric of Tayyip Erdoğan and some AKP leaders expresses this. There is a constant threatening situation. He wants to create such an atmosphere, wants to paint such an image for his own circles as if he is the second conqueror, that he is victorious in this war. He wants to create a perception. However, this is not the reality. It is not only wrong, but also dangerous.

What we have seen from the delegation or from the discussions that took place after the delegation’s meeting with Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] and during the talks with the political parties has shown, firstly, that this set the agenda of discussion in Turkey. Rightly or wrongly, it is still positive. Because it’s a discussion regarding democratization and its key, the Kurdish question. And the chief interlocutor of the Kurdish question is Rêber Apo. It is appropriate for the Kurdish question to be on the discussion agenda in such a situation.

We have experience from previous processes. We are not experiencing such a process for the first time. In fact, in the past, Rêber Apo and our party have declared many uniliteral ceasefires; there have been similar processes, there has been hope, and there has been despair, but it didn’t bring a solution, and so we have come to today. So it is not a new situation; we have a wealth of experience. Compared to the past, many social and political circles and political parties here are closer to each other. To a certain point, they may have a better understanding of the process than before. There is no complete change of mentality or policy, but they say that this situation cannot go on like this, that change is needed. This is good; there seems to be agreement on this point, but they are not all the same. For example, during the talks, when statements were made, the AKP delegation said: “We had just a little chat.” No one else who met with the delegation said that. There are still statements coming from AKP circles that use the old language that is based on annihilation and slander. Saying: “We’re going to bury them.” This is a language far from reality. Other parties are more consistent. For example, the CHP’s approach has been more consistent.

There are fears that the AKP will abuse this situation for elections. The CHP, but also other parties, are very sensitive about this issue. They immediately bring it to the forefront. Of course, they have a point. But this is nothing that can be instrumentalized for elections. The solution to the Kurdish question, the democratization of Turkey, making legal and constitutional arrangements, and Turkey going through a reformist change – this cannot be abused for votes. That is nothing one can just put on the agenda to snatch some votes. That would be a very simple and manipulative approach. That approach will not bring them votes. It will not affect  society. On the contrary, it would be seen as opportunism and lead to a loss.

This process has also revealed the fact that the Kurdish question has been perpetuated by a conflict. The 100-year-old problem has become a 100-year-old conflict. Kurds were pitted against each other, and politics was carried out through this. The system of global capitalist modernity has benefited various states and political forces within it. They profited from the Kurdish conflict, the Kurdish question. But there are also many rent-seekers in Turkey. There are so many people who benefited from this war. This war has been going on for forty years. It would be good if it were investigated what these people were doing and expose them to the public. That would be an important task of the press. We have seen this in the so-called right-wing and nationalist circles. In fact, the CHP was very present in social nationalist circles as well. There were quite a few people who benefited from the Kurdish question and the conflict that was caused through it.

The Kurdish question is both complex and simple. It is an issue of mentality and politics. It has nothing to do with material interests and not so much with political and economic problems as some people think. It is an issue of mentality, a fascist, colonialist, and genocidal mentality. The mentality that strives to deny and destroy the existence of the Kurdish people, and the politics that this mentality leads to, creates this issue. Seeing the Kurdish reality, understanding that the Kurdish people have rights just as everyone has rights, just as everyone has democratic rights, and implementing such a change in mentality and pushing forward democratization would immediately solve the Kurdish question. There would be no basis left for such a fascist, genocidal torture system against Rêber Apo. There would be no need to say such words, to produce such policies. Such a mentality and policy would solve it immediately. But if the current mentality and policy are insisted on – the existence of a people of 50 million is being denied and is under attack, all the means of Turkey are utilized for military, extermination, and ideological attacks, and everything is abused for the annihilation of the Kurdish people, for the genocide of the Kurdish people – then it is a complex issue that cannot be resolved. They have been attacking for 100 years and have not succeeded. Kurds are neither a small community in quantity nor a weak people in quality. They are one of the most ancient peoples in history, coming from the Neolithic period. One of the oldest people of Mesopotamia, with one of the strongest cultural backgrounds and values. How are you going to destroy these people? You came from Central Asia in tribes, on horseback, sword in hand, and settled in Anatolia. Thanks to whom were you able to come here? It was thanks to the Kurds. You came through Kurdistan, and you got so far with the support of Kurds. If you now try to cut the branch you rode on, what will become of you? This is the situation of the current government in Turkey. This is the situation of the government that wants to destroy the Kurds.

Neither can the Kurdish people be wiped out through assimilation and cultural and physical genocide, nor can the Turkish state and Turkish society wipe out Kurdish existence itself. Because their very own existence is based on the backs of the Kurds. They made Anatolia their home with the Kurdish alliance. Through them, they have been able to form a nation there. If they wipe out the Kurds, it is like they are cutting their own feet off, and then they destroy their own foundation. That’s why Rêber Apo has repeatedly said. There can be no Turks without Kurds and no Kurds without Turks. Their co-existence is so intertwined and interdependent. If they don’t realize this, if they insist on saying that everyone within the borders of Turkey, within the borders of the Turkish Republic, is a Turk, and attack everyone that is objecting to this, then they will lose all power, all means.

Then they won’t be able to succeed in anything and will lose the power to solve the Kurdish question or any other existing problem. They cannot solve the Kurdish problem by force of arms or by genocide. It can only be solved with a change in mentality, a revolution, a change in policy. If they democratize just a little, if they see the differences, if they accept that Kurds are a people like Turks, that they have democratic rights, that they should live freely, then it could be solved at a moment’s notice. That is why Rêber Apo says he will solve it in a week. Because it is a problem that can be solved at this level with a change in mentality. Therefore, it is necessary to criticize and change this monist, nationalist, racist, and fascist mentality and politics. It is necessary to shift the direction of the discussions there.

This is how Rêber Apo perceived it already fifteen, twenty years ago, and why he evaluated various possibilities. He predicted where the outcome would go according to various policies. He is also in constant follow-up. Therefore, he knows the developments well; he foresees and predicts them before anyone else. He develops an attitude and policy accordingly. He saw the results of the struggle. Yes, our struggle may not have led to the great military victory, but it has destroyed their ‘Collapse Plan.’ Those who thought they could force the Kurdish freedom movement to its knees with a military attack ended up collapsing themselves.

There is the development of the Third World War in the Middle East. Israel is becoming a new hegemonic power in the region, while Iran and Turkey were already hegemonic powers before. In Iraq, the Baathist government fell, and now also in Syria, Baath power has fallen. The nation state system in Iraq and Syria has dissolved and collapsed. Iran and Turkey remained as the main status quo nation states. One can say that in this Third World War, the nation state status quo is being dismantled. It had no chance of success, and now it has been defeated. Both Turkey and Iran have been defeated in this war. But how they will bring it to a conclusion will be determined in the process to come. In other words, what kind of change and transformation they will experience will be determined.

Rêber Apo also evaluated these. In this context, especially when Devlet Bahceli made his statement and the environment in Turkey seemed open to this, Rêber Apo took the initiative and started developing a process. By evaluating this environment and conditions, he said that if favorable conditions are created, he can move the developments surrounding the Kurdish question from the grounds of conflict and war to the legal and political grounds. He wants to stop the conflict and war and pave the way for democratic politics and a legal solution and to develop a process that will realize a peaceful and democratic solution to the Kurdish question. “I have the power”, he said. “I can develop such a solution; I can play a role here.” This is how he responded to the call made to him; he took the initiative.

The declaration made by the delegation on behalf of Rêber Apo reflects his attitude and the work that he carries out with hope, determination, and patience. It reveals how assertive, faithful, and determined he is. There is great self-confidence, sincerity, consistency, and a demand to work. He really wants to develop a process that will realize the solution of the Kurdish question on the basis of the democratization of Turkey and even the democratization of the Middle East. There is an intense effort in this direction. But of course, Rêber Apo will only be able to do this if the conditions for this are met. Who has to create these conditions? Those who keep the Imrali system alive, who maintain it, have to meet the conditions. Who created the system of torture and genocide of Imrali, and who has been maintaining it for 26 years? They need to abolish this system and prepare the conditions for Rêber Apo.

To those who say that the PKK should abolish itself: First of all, abolish the system of torture, isolation, and genocide in Imrali, the system that has brought Kurdistan and Turkey to a deadlock. The conditions must be created so that people can come, work and discuss. After that, one can have a look at whether the PKK will be dissolved or not. It is not the case that the PKK can simply be dissolved; all hell would break loose. The PKK is nothing of one state or another. What are they thinking? They would simply collapse the firmament on the people. Also, how will the Kurdish people’s free democratic life and participation in Turkey’s democracy be realized? An organization for this needs to develop.

The priority is to pave the way and create the conditions for Rêber Apo to freely engage in politics. In other words, the Imrali system must be abolished. This is necessary. But there is no such effort, no work from the governmental side. In the Imralie environment, they expect Rêber Apo to act as a servant and do whatever they want. This is not possible. As Demirel used to say – it is against the nature of things. Those who keep this system alive have to do this step for the process, for Rêber Apo to play his role. What will make them do this? The struggle will make them do it. The meeting on October 23 was a direct result of the struggle, and so was the meeting on December 28. They emerged as the results of the struggle in the framework of the global freedom campaign. The struggle of the Kurdish people and their international friends is the only force that will lead those who maintain the Imrali system to change it and create development. Our people, the Kurds, the democratic forces of Turkey, women, and especially the youth should be very well aware of this. No one should expect that a solution, an agreement, will be made at the table, signatures will be signed, and everything will be resolved. No one should think that the struggle is over. There is no such thing. We are entering into a more complex, much more intense process of struggle. In this respect, much stronger organization, unity, and struggle are needed.

There is a necessity for much more sensitivity regarding all kinds of tricks and games against fascist special war attacks. Therefore, it is necessary to be organized and be united. One has to be very sensitive and cautious, and we must struggle until the end. The struggle must not stop. It is absolutely necessary to understand this process accurately, and, accordingly, it is inevitable that the solution will be achieved through our struggle. It will be through the struggle of the people. Therefore, we must assume responsibility, take on tasks, and lead this struggle. We must develop this in a sensitive manner and with the right ways and methods.

In this, the Kurdish youth and the women must play the pioneering role, and the Kurdish people must mobilize not only themselves but also their international friends. It is the democratic, left-socialist forces that have to play the most decisive role. Rêber Apo has also made calls on this issue. Turkey’s democratic and left-socialist forces should take upon their responsibility and lead this process. This is about the democratization of Turkey, a democratization on the level of a revolution. All the left, socialist, and democratic forces of Turkey have to embrace this process more than anyone else. They should unite their struggles with the Kurdish people, youth, and women and take responsibility for the development of this process as a process of democratization in Turkey. Like this, the process will move forward. The Kurdish problem cannot be solved without the democratization of Turkey. There will be no solution in Turkey. Kurdish freedom and Turkish democracy are completely dependent on each other.

The ruling circles spit big notes such as “We defeated them!”, “We broke them!”, and “We will bury them!” This throwing around of empty slogans must stop. We are trying to show the sensitivity and attention required by the process. We really want this process, which Rêber Apo wants to develop with enthusiasm and excitement, to progress and be realized. We are making any effort for this. But society in Turkey and those circles must know that this will not work with these threats. Nothing will happen with those threats. The PKK leadership made a statement on this issue. We are always ready for war, and we are ready for peace. They should not play with the emotions and feelings of the Kurdish people and freedom forces. If they really want some change, if they truly love Turkey… In this period of collapse, these efforts of Rêber Apo are the last chance for the salvation of Turkey. If this is not utilized, there can no longer be such initiatives. Kurds do not lack options. The struggle over Kurdistan has intensified. There are many actors, not only the Turkish state. Kurds are related to everyone at one level or another. Kurdistan is the center of the struggle. No one can defeat the Kurds.

Rêber Apo strives for a solution based on the democratization of Turkey, and we are supporting this. A democratized Turkey will lead to a democratized Middle East. And a democratized Middle East will lead to progress in democratic and free life for humanity. We support this because we believe in it. It should not be assumed that this is the only option that we are in dire need. In this respect, no one should hold us responsible if there are negative consequences. Patiently, carefully, and sensitively, as a movement and as a people, we are acting in accordance with the requirements of these things. Despite all the attacks by the ruling circles. They are arresting so many people, are forcibly appointing so many trustees, have developed so many conflicts with the CHP, are putting Turkey into different conflicts, and are constantly waging war. The war has never stopped. The war continues with full intensity in the Medya Defense Areas and in all parts of Kurdistan. There is not the slightest withdrawal. Everyone should be aware of this.