Besê Hozat, KCK co-chair, spoke in a special program broadcast on Medya Haber television. In the second part of the interview, Hozat spoke about the incapability of the Turkish state to achieve its occupation goals in South Kurdistan/North Iraq, the pressure on Kurds and all other parts of Turkey´s society and the recent meeting between Turkish and Syrian officials.

The first part of the interview can be read here

Incapability of the Turkish state to achieve its occupation goals in South Kurdistan/North Iraq

“First of all, I would like to commemorate with respect, love and gratitude all the comrades who have been martyred in Avaşin, Zap, Metîna and the other parts of the Medya Defense Zones [in South Kurdistan/North Iraq] while they were heroically resisting. With their resistance, honorable stance and struggle, they have given the Kurds a great sense of success and victory. They have foiled many plans. Since the Turkish state has not been able to achieve results with its genocidal attacks, it has resorted to all kinds of dirty methods. Chemical weapons are a part of this. It has been using chemical weapons continuously for 8 months during this war. It has done so thousands of times and has also made use of thermobaric bombs. The Turkish state has used all kinds of banned weapons during this war. What is the reason for using these banned weapons, for using chemical weapons so intensively? The reason is that the Turkish state has not achieved any results. It has failed against the guerrillas and can therefore not implement its plan. Starting on April 14, 2022, the Turkish state has tried to carry out its plan according to which it would occupy all the Medya Defense Zones, Mosul and Kirkuk. It wanted to realize the Misak-ı Milli [National Pact] plan.

It wanted to reach the borders of the Misak-ı Milli and annex all of South Kurdistan. Thus, it would have established a very serious political hegemony over Iraq. It has been carrying out the same policy in Rojava and wanted to bring this to a conclusion. After achieving the desired results in South Kurdistan, the Turkish state had planned to turn to Rojava immediately. The plan was to occupy Rojava and realize the Misak-ı Milli there as well. Thus, it would have become the main hegemonic power in the region. This was the plan. Erdogan planned to participate in the 2023 elections based on this victory, win the elections and to completely constitutionalize his genocidal colonialist fascist dictatorship. But the guerrillas have put up a magnificent resistance, resisted with superhuman will and with great commitment and faith. It has crushed all the plans of the Turkish state.

The Turkish state is now stuck in Zap, Avaşin and Metîna. In many discussion programs on Turkish TV channels all the fascist generals who fought against us for years in the 90s are now being sold as terrorism experts, security experts, and they are all say the same thing: They say that they have suffered many casualties in Zap, but that this was necessary. “It was necessary because for Turkey this is an existential issue”, they say. Indeed, the army has suffered huge blows, thousands of casualties. The will of the Turkish army has really been crushed in this war.”

“In [the South Kurdish area] Avaşin they have used all kinds of banned weapons such as chemical weapons and thermobaric bombs against the guerrilla forces, because they could not cope with their resistance. We don’t know the exact names of many of these weapons, but we can clearly see the results. Therefore, we know that this is the first time they have used such weapons. In this sense, they have committed crimes against humanity. There have been huge protests against the use of these weapons.

When the martyrdom of 17 friends and very serious visual proof of this was made public, this caused a great outrage. Very serious protests were the result. One of those who protested was Şebnem Korur Fincancı. She is a very valuable person. She is a woman of science who has devoted her life to freedom, human rights and justice. But now they have arrested her. She took a stance publicly in a very honorable way and revealed that chemical weapons have been used. With her statement, this issue was put on the world’s agenda. Thus, this had a very serious impact. As a consequence, serious statements by the international community were made. A lot of documents related to this issue have already been made public. They are waging such a dirty war and are committing crimes against humanity. But they will definitely be held to account for this. Therefore, we need to not allow the issue of chemical weapons to cool down. We need to continue putting this on the agenda by intensifying and strengthening our efforts.”

“These attacks will continue in an even more comprehensive manner in 2023. We need to be aware that the Turkish state will insist on continuing these attacks in 2023 by intensifying them even more in the Medya Defense Zones. It will continue these attacks in all of Kurdistan. Against this, our struggle must continue very strongly everywhere, especially the struggle of the guerrillas and the people. We must be able to prove our capacity, strategy and practice of struggle that will completely defeat the centuries-old colonialist, genocidal and colonialist policies of the Turkish state and guarantee a decisive victory. This is extremely important.”

Pressure on Kurds and all other parts of Turkey´s society

“The former HDP co-chairs, many MPs, co-mayors, municipal council members, political activists and thousands of other politicians are currently under arrest. They have all been in prison for years. Now they have moved against the DBP [Democratic Regions Party]. Keskin Bayındır, dozens of provincial co-chairs and district co-chairs have been arrested recently.

These political genocide operations have become very intense. But the protests against this are insufficient. Therefore, it is necessary to criticize this. This is not acceptable. Those who have been arrested represent the political will of the Kurdish people. Our people need to be able to carry out very serious protests. These genocide attacks and this fascist policy don´t only affect the Kurdish people, but the whole society of Turkey. The attacks have passed beyond Kurdistan.

Currently, there is also an ongoing operation against the Istanbul Municipality. They are planning to impose a political ban on Imamoğlu and are calculating on thus seizing the Istanbul Municipality. Imamoğlu has been mentioned as a potential presidential candidate. Therefore, the aim is to make this impossible. In Turkey, they are trying to crush all the forces that resist and that show a certain critical stance. If they seize the Istanbul Municipality today, they will move against the Izmir Municipality tomorrow.

Then they may seize the Antalya Municipality and afterwards all the municipalities in the big cities along the coastline, all of which are held by the CHP. These attacks, the isolation [of Abdullah Öcalan], constitute a threat against the Kurds. But all this is also a threat against the society in Turkey. The aim of these fascist, genocidal attacks is the Kurdish genocide. But the results of this policy also manifest themselves in the form of fascism in Turkey. This also intimidates, oppresses and weakens the Turkish society. Almost all of Turkey’s economy is being spent on this war. This war is impoverishing Turkish society. Where is all this money going? It is all being spend on the war.”

Recent meeting between Turkish and Syrian officials

“Of course, we cannot separate this situation from the current political conjuncture in the region and in the world and from the developments in Syria. If we did, this would be a very eclectic and incomprehensible approach. Russia is directly involved in  recent developments. It is having a very difficult time because of the war in Ukraine. This is very clear. Ukraine is strategically important for Russia. Its initial plan was to seize all of Ukraine. It thus pursued strategic goals there. By establishing dominance over Ukraine, Russia wanted to completely end NATO’s influence there.

Therefore, it is very important for Russia to have Turkey on its side. Russia cares about this very much. Turkey is a NATO country. It would be a great success for Russia, if Turkey ended all its support to Ukraine. Since Turkey is a NATO country, it is very important for Russia to keep the country by its side. There is already a serious economic embargo in place against Russia. Russia therefore seeks to continue its imports and exports from and to Turkey and to thus make Turkey Russia´s gateway to the world.

What is Russia doing to keep Turkey on its side? It is making a lot of concessions to Turkey with respect to the Kurds. Russia is pursuing such dirty politics. It uses the Kurds as an instrument and is willing to sacrifice them. At the same time, Russia is looking at the situation of the US and NATO. Turkey is a NATO country. NATO has a regional policy and a Russian policy as well. NATO´s goal is to keep Turkey on NATO´s side so as not to push it further towards Russia. An embargo has been imposed on Russia, for example, but Turkey has not joined it. In other words, Turkey has not played along but there have not been any serious protests.

Some people are arguing that Turkey is meeting with Damascus because of the elections and that all this is only of a tactical nature. But this is not tactical at all. Of course, the aim [of the AKP-MHP government] is to win the elections. And their current policy also serves this goal. That is one hundred percent certain. Russia wants Erdogan to win the elections in Turkey. That is also very clear. For years, the opposition in Turkey and the opposition within the system, especially the CHP, have been constantly urging the current government to make a deal with Damascus.

In this sense, the current policy is the policy of the Turkish state as a whole. If we exclude the democratic opposition, it is a state policy including both the opposition and the government. Turkey has recently changed its Syria policy. It aims to destroy the Rojava revolution and the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria by making a deal with the [Syrian] regime. In this regard, Turkey is also trying to get Russia´s and Iran´s support. But Iran is a little more cautious because it does not want Turkey to become a hegemonic power in Syria and the region in general. It is highly likely that the next stage will be a meeting between Cavusoglu and the Syrian Foreign Minister, again under the guarantorship and mediation of Russia.

The stage after that may be a meeting of Erdoğan and Assad. But these developments will not be easy. These developments are not as easy as some might say. This is a very complicated, bumpy, conflictual and chaotic process. And it is not clear what time will bring. In this respect, an agreement between Syria and Turkey is not an easy thing to happen. The agreement that Turkey wants cannot be achieved easily.”

“It is in Damascus’ interest to negotiate with the Kurds and to achieve an understanding with them. I don’t think Damascus will make an agreement with Turkey on the basis of clashing with the Kurds and carrying out a genocide against them. Damascus knows very well what this would mean. It is the Arab and Kurdish alliance and unity that has kept Damascus alive for decades.

It is also the Arab-Kurdish unity that has saved Syria from ISIS. The Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria and the Arab-Kurdish alliance have achieved all this. The democratic unity and alliance of the peoples are the basis of this. If Turkey has now been forced to accept Assad and if the world has also come to the point of accepting him, this is thanks to the struggle of the SDF [Syrian Democratic Forces] and the peoples of North and East Syria. This is thanks to the struggle of the YPG and YPJ.

I am sure that Damascus knows this too. Damascus has never pursued such a genocidal, colonialist policy against the Kurds like Turkey. It has always kept the Kurdish culture, language and people alive in Syria. Therefore, Damascus’ interest lies in a reconciliation and an agreement with the Kurds. Anything else, such as acting on the basis of Turkey’s policy, would be political suicide for Damascus. Both the Damascus administration and the Syrian state possess the intelligence and experience of a state to know this.

We believe that this is the case. In other words, an approach based on an agreement and negotiations with the Kurds and on Syria solving the problem on a democratic basis will benefit Damascus, Syria, the Syrian people and the Syrian state as a whole, as well as the peoples of the region and the region as a whole. This will strengthen Syria and make it one of the strongest, most prestigious and respected countries in the world.”