Mustafa Karasu, member of the KCK Executive Council, spoke about the resistance in the prisons of Turkey against the isolation policy of Imrali as well as the absence of news about Abdullah Öcalan.

First of all, we would like to take a look at the leader of the Kurdish people, Abdullah Öcalan. What can you tell us about his situation? And in connection with his situation, what developments are there in Turkey?

Lately there was an earthquake in the Marmara region. The epicenter of this earthquake was in Gemlik and the Imrali island. In this situation, of course Rêber Apo’s [Abdullah Öcalan] lawyers wanted to meet him. But again they were not allowed to see him. There have been no meetings with Rêber Apo for almost three years. This shows the approach of the Turkish state towards Imrali and Rêber Apo. There is nothing alike in the world. They are giving disciplinary penalties of 3 months and 6 months on the basis of fabricated scenarios and then still dare to state things like: “We are a state of law. If there are no meetings in a state of law, it is because there is a punishment”. It is an approach that deceives and mocks everybody.

If there would have been an earthquake elsewhere, they would immediately show all the prisoners, convicts and let them meet with their families. But when it is about Imrali, even the law does not work. There is a one-man law. There is psychological warfare on the Kurdish people, psychological warfare on Imrali, more precisely, the genocidal war being waged on the Kurds is being waged from there. It is obvious how a state waging a genocidal war against a people approaches the leader of this people. The Turkish state approaches Rêber Apo the same way it approaches the Kurdish people. It does not accept the existence of the Kurdish people, so it does not accept the existence of a leader either. In this respect, we need to know where the policies of the Turkish state stem from. If we know how the Kurdish genocide works, if we know what practices the Turkish state has carried out for the Kurdish genocide for a hundred years, we will know what the practices in Imrali mean. In this respect, of course we see the genocidal Turkish state’s practices against Rêber Apo.

Of course, there is resistance against this. It is necessary to struggle against this. Otherwise, so without resistance, without developing the struggle, the freedom of Rêber Apo cannot be achieved and the isolation cannot be broken. Today there is a worldwide struggle for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. The Turkish state is actually being forced, exposed and isolated. Everyone knows about the isolation, the way, the methods and pressure that is forced on Rêber Apo. There is no one left who does not know. The allies of the Turkish state know it, its friends know it. They are conducting this policy of oppression and isolation in Imrali in an environment known to the world. The other day Hakan Fidan said that the policy they are conducting is within Putin’s knowledge, within the knowledge of the Council of Europe, within the knowledge of the European Union. He is openly saying that it is the European Union, the European states that legitimize what they are doing. In other words, he is saying that they approve of this. This clearly shows that they are accomplices. It shows that the Council of Europe is an accomplice.

It is necessary to criticize the policies of the Turkish state and fight against it. It is necessary to take a stance against the Council of Europe, against the CPT and against the European states. Because there are agreements signed with Turkey. The CPT can go and visit prisons. They have been given such a right. The reason why Turkey signs such agreements is actually to cover up and legitimize its genocide policy against the Kurds. To deceive people and say that there is democracy, there is freedom, that there are human rights being followed. There are also institutions that follow this deceiving. They are trying to legitimize this by saying “we are doing everything within the framework of democracy, we are doing everything within the framework of human rights”.

The struggle against the isolation in Imrali and the struggle to free Rêber Apo is a very important political struggle. Because it has become a political institution. It cannot be said that it has adopted an attitude according to human rights and law. The European Union approaches Turkey in the same way, the Council of Europe approaches Turkey, European states approach Turkey in the same way.

In this respect, while fighting against the isolation, while demanding the freedom of Rêber Apo, it is also necessary to take a stance against these institutions, to struggle against them, to wage a legal struggle, to expose them, to ensure that they act in accordance with their own laws and regulations. On the one hand they call it CPT, they call it the Human Rights Institution, but on the other hand they do not act according to the policies of the European Union. This needs to be exposed and isolated.

The Marmara earthquake was expected. There had been rumors about it since years. It is also said that there will be an earthquake in Istanbul. Scientists expect that such an earthquake will happen. But it is not clear how many precautions have been taken. After the first earthquake happened in the Marmara region, the ‘earthquake tax’ was created, but that earthquake tax was not for precautions against earthquakes. In other words, it was not used to strengthen the buildings. Then the earthquake of Maraş, Malatya, Adıyaman, Hatay happened and 13 million people were affected by it. Nearly 200 thousand people died. The official numbers say 50 thousand, but it can be clearly said that it were close to 200 thousand people that died. The Turkish state hides the figures anyway, it hides everything in the war, but especially it always hides these figures so that society does not see the truth, so that it is not exposed to the policies. Now, if there is an earthquake in Istanbul, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people could die. None of this earthquake money has gone to earthquake retrofitting. Only maybe 10 percent of it was used. Ninety percent of it has been used for rent-seeking elsewhere, to make their own cronies rich. This is the situation. The people of Istanbul, the people of Marmara need to focus on this. In the future, tens of thousands will be sad, they will sigh. They need to hold the current government to account. They need to find out where these earthquake taxes have gone, how many buildings have been reinforced. In other words, such a social consciousness and social stance must emerge. The earthquake in Maraş, Malatya, Adıyaman, Antep was really big, but it seems forgotten right now. Not even a year has passed. How can such an earthquake be forgotten? Hundreds of thousands of people died, 13 million people were affected, but this government was not held to account. It is almost as if the people will be indebted to this government because the earthquake happened and this government is building houses. There is such a reality. It is very serious.

What is politics, if it isn’t for the people, if it isn’t for the society? Hundreds of thousands of people have died. In this respect, the opposition’s approach is really inadequate. The approach of democrats and intellectuals is insufficient. This earthquake is not an earthquake to be forgotten. It is not an earthquake to say that it was a disaster, it struck and we should do what we can. It is an earthquake that was predicted in advance. They say it will happen in Maraş, right? But no measures are taken. Even in Maraş, Malatya, Adıyaman, zoning amnesty is granted to all buildings that are not earthquake resistant. They sell people their graves. Now there is really no voice against this. This is a serious situation. This really needs to be on the agenda. This government needs to be grabbed by the collar, they need to be held accountable. So many people have died because of their policies. Ten cities have been destroyed. This is really unconscionable. Everything in Turkey is rotten, consciences are rotten too. Thousands of people waited for their deaths under the collapsed buildings. Thinking about their death, that they may die in a day, maybe in 5 hours, they stayed under the debris of the city. They waited for help, but no one helped them. Thousands of people experienced this feeling under the earthquake. They died by experiencing that feeling. What literature can describe this, what novel can describe this? Which human emotion can really bear it? It is really unconscionable. In this respect, the fact that this is not brought up by the opposition shows how inadequately the opposition approaches the problems and how they follow the agenda of the government. Instead of holding the government to account for these crimes committed by the government, it follows the government’s agenda and such an event is forgotten.

Tomorrow it will happen in Istanbul, tens of thousands will die, it will be approached in the same way. If the society approaches it this way, if the opposition approaches it this way, why should the government be worried? Why shouldn’t it take the earthquake money and give it to its own cronies? It says, “I will give it to them, and if there is an earthquake tomorrow, I will pay for it. It is a situation that really disturbs and creates uneasiness. It is really irresponsible to accept this, not to think about it, not to pursue it, not to hold it to account, not to write literature about it, not to write novels about it, not to write poetry about it, not to keep it alive in the memory, not to raise anger against it, anger against the government that caused this earthquake.

From this point of view, I am once again telling all democrats, democratic forces, socialist that they should bring this earthquake to the agenda. The murders are obvious. It was done on purpose. There is guilt. There is the spending of earthquake money. Even those were not held to account. Billions of aid was received, but AKP gave it here and there to solve its own economic crisis.

It is said that there will be an earthquake with its center in Imrali and Istanbul. A new approach to this earthquake issue needs to be developed. The Turkish government needs to develop a new policy. It needs to develop a new attitude. The people need to establish organizations and supervise it. They need to supervise the municipalities. The government needs to be supervise. How ready is ‘The Disaster and Emergency Management Authority’ [AFAD?] What can it do in case of an earthquake? The people need to follow up and hold them accountable. If this happens, then when an earthquake occurs, there will be the least pain, the least loss of life.

Since you have been talking about the isolation on Imrali, what is the situation of the political prisoners in Turkey? There is also struggle being waged and not long ago a hunger strike for the freedom of Abdullah Öcalan was started. How do you evaluate this?

I would like to respectfully greet the comrades in prison. Indeed, in the prisons a high price has been paid for the struggle of this people and this since 50 years. Along with the guerrilla, it was our comrades in the prison who paid the highest price. In this respect, the actions of the comrades in prison must be valuated.

Right now there are almost 200 prisons in the state of Turkey. All prisons are full of Kurdish prisoners. They are isolated from each other and are under intense pressure. Even their families cannot go to them. In order to prevent Kurdish families from seeing their children, they have built prisons in the farthest places in Turkey and they drive them all over the country. But the comrades in the prisons have continued their resistance until today in accordance with their own traditions, in the spirit of July 14th, in accordance with the history of the prison resistance. Whenever there is an important agenda regarding Rêber Apo, about his freedom, about isolation, when there is pressure on Rêber Apo, the prisons have always felt really responsible, they have always done what was necessary. In this respect, the prisons fulfill their responsibilities. They show this attitude by melting their bodies in the prisons when they have no weapons, when they have no means. As a result of this, there are hundreds of seriously ill people in prisons. One of the reasons for these illnesses is that they are under so much pressure, they have gone on so many death fasts and hunger strikes. They are under psychological warfare under such heavy isolation, they are kept in an unhealthy environment, they are not taken to the doctor when necessary. All of these have of course created an important health problem in the prison.

The resistance of the comrades in the prison should really be saluted with respect. Their families support them and we need to support them even more. It is not enough if this responsibility is just left on the shoulders of the families. The whole Kurdish people should embrace the resistance in the prison. Our international friends, Kurdish friends and democrats started the global campaign for the physical freedom for Rêber Apo and status for Kurdistan. It is their campaign and it is being supported by our comrades in the prisons. They have taken action to ensure the success of the campaign. They felt responsibility again. They started such an action despite very difficult conditions. Of course, our people, everyone should understand this resistance, if they put forward such resistance under such difficult conditions, if they put their lives on the line, if they are melting day by day, our youth, our women, our people everywhere should develop more struggle. The stance of the comrades in prison is a stance according to the line of the party. It is a stance of loyalty to Rêber Apo. What Rêber Apo means for Kurdistan, what the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom means is best demonstrated in prisons. For years, by going on death fasts, hunger strikes, fighting against the isolation of Rêber Apo and for his freedom, paying very heavy prices in this regard, both our female comrades and our male comrades have shown everyone what Rêber Apo means to the Kurdish people.

While looking at the prisons, it is also necessary to evaluate the prisons’ view of and approach to Rêber Apo. All our people need to understand the reality of Rêber Apo by looking at their children in prison. All the people in the prison are conscious people, educated people, people with a sense of responsibility. If they embrace Rêber Apo so much, then all our people should look at their own children and embrace Rêber Apo the same way. No people can deserve freedom without embracing their leadership. No people can deserve democracy without embracing the leadership. Only by claiming their leaders can they win freedom. A people who embrace their leader will gain freedom, but if they do not embrace their leader, they cannot gain freedom.

Why is there so much pressure on Rêber Apo? In few weeks 25 years will be over. It is not just a few years. In the past, seven folk songs were sung for those who had been in prison for seven years. Now the Leader has been in prison for 25 years. For what? For this people. Rêber Apo has never lived a day or a second for himself, he has given his whole life to this people. He continues to do so in prison. We all need to stand up for this leadership. Claiming this leadership cannot be left just to the prisons. What are the possibilities of prisons? What can they do? They can only put their lives on the line. In this respect, mainly our people, youth, women, international friends and democratic forces outside, we need to strengthen and participate in the campaign for the freedom of Rêber Apo. I take this opportunity to greet the comrades in prison once again. Despite all the oppression, they represent the honor and pride of this people. They represent all our martyrs, they are worthy of our martyrs. They are worthy of the Kemals, Hayris and Mazlums. In this respect, I greet them here once again with respect and love.

In the frame work of the global campaign for the freedom if Abdullah Öcalan and a status to Kurdistan, many actions are evolving. Most recently there was an action day to drag attention on the writings of Abdullah Öcalan. What can you tell us about this?

December 10th was Rêber Apo’s Book Day day, which was quite important. I would like to send my greetings to those who started such a campaign, it is a very important work that is being done. Indeed, starting, carrying out and developing days of reading Rêber Apo means spreading the thought that will ensure the freedom of humanity. It means ensuring that the ideas that will ensure the freedom of humanity and lead people to a democratic and free life are embraced all over the world. It means raising the consciousness of humanity. It means bringing closer the freedom of all humanity, of all oppressed people in the world.

It is clear that today, to free humanity, to free the peoples, laborers, women, youth, the oppressed from capitalist life, and to create a democratic socialist life, a democratic modernity, a modernist life, it is necessary to look upon the ideas of Rêber Apo. His ideas are now really important. We have made a lot of evaluations on this issue before, but I want to stress out this once again. The thoughts of Rêber Apo need to be discussed. All intellectuals, democrats and socialists need to discuss them. It expresses a very important political philosophy. There is a thought, a paradigm that collects all 5000 years of values and knowledge created by the human, criticizes mistakes and puts forward correct ones. This needs to be seen. There is a deficiency in this respect. Let it be discussed. If there is a contribution to be made, let it be made. Shortcomings can be discussed, but most essentially let it be discussed and evaluated. Rêber Apo evaluates 5,000 years of history that will lead all humanity to freedom. There is no other philosopher, no other ideologist who evaluates 5,000 years of history in such a holistic way. Yes, there are many social scientists; we respect them and their evaluations. They have also put forward important analyses to raise people’s consciousness. But there is Rêber Apo following an holistic approach, dealing with the entire history of humanity, dealing with social science in its entirety, dealing with politics in its entirety, and putting forward a comprehensive paradigm within this framework.

Rêber Apo is a socialist leader, a leader of humanity. Of course, his writings should be read, discussed and spread around the world. This is very valuable. Such a kind of treasure. It should be open to everyone, shown to everyone. It is really a deficiency for all of us that such a great idea has not been spread sufficiently until now. We are not saying it has not been spread. There are great efforts in the world being made. The books of Rêber Apo have been published, they have made friends. Conferences have been held and discussed in many places, but it is still insufficient. If the ideas of Rêber Apo are discussed in a very comprehensive way in the world, I can easily say that the life of this male-dominated intellectual, power, statist system will come to an end. The life of its last representative, capitalist modernity, will be shortened. We see what capitalist modernity has brought to humanity. It brings nothing but crisis, problems, war, fighting and poverty. It brings nothing but the death of society. Society is dying, humanity is dying. Reading the books of Rêber Apo is actually a solution, a remedy, a medicine. The more one reads and learns about Rêber Apo, the more one will find a cure for the diseases that humanity and societies are suffering from. It really is a solution. Rêber Apo has created a paradigm that synthesizes the knowledge and thoughts of all the philosophers and intellectuals who have struggled for humanity from the past to the present, taking from them, that is, based on them. Rêber Apo was nourished by Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, the era of Europe that was undergoing reform and Renaissance, and of course the theories put forward by Marx, Engels and socialists starting from the 19th century. He emerged as a Marxist, put forward this idea by appropriating them. But Rêber Apo saw the shortcomings and inadequacies of real socialism. He saw the lack of solutions on various issues, he saw the lack of solutions on women’s freedom, he saw the lack of solutions on ecology and nature, he saw the state as deficient in its evaluation and he came up with an alternative paradigm.

We can no longer live in a state-dominated, power-oriented, male-dominated world. The way out of this male-dominated, power-oriented, statist world is to spread the ideas of Rêber Apo. We see this as very important. He needs to be constantly read. This is actually a great service to humanity. Rêber Apo once said it like this: “I present these evaluations, these analyses in the consistency of strained honey. It is really that clear.” It shows people the way to salvation in the consistency of strained honey. Everyone should really read and learn this, and just as filtered honey is very useful, the thoughts of Rêber Apo are really valuable and useful for all humanity in the consistency of filtered honey. In this respect, I think that these reading days will give a great impetus to learning about Rêber Apo, and I would like to once again salute those who carry out this work for their efforts.