Sabri Ok, a member of the Executive Council of the Community of Kurdistan Societies (KCK), spoke about the crisis of the AKP-MHP alliance, that has brought Turkey to the verge of collapse because of its insistence in fighting a war it cannot win. 

The genocidal attacks on North/South Kurdistan and Rojava by the regime of AKP-MHP continue. At the same time, the Turkish army is suffering heavy blows from the guerrilla. How do you evaluate the ongoing war and the attacks against the Kurdish people?

The Kurdish people are a political people. They see their future. Undoubtedly, there is a belief in Rêber Apo’s policy of freedom and the democratization of society. Our 50 years of struggle, resistance and experience is a historical achievement. We also believe in this. But we also need to know this; the process we are in, as I stated, is not a normal process. The Kurdistan guerrilla forces, the ‘People’s Defense Forces’ (HPG) and ‘Free Women’s Units’ (YJA Star), have dealt heavy blows to the enemy in the ongoing tunnel warfare. Historical resistance is being displayed against the most advanced technology and chemical weapons. On this occasion, once again, I bow in front of all our martyrs and commemorate them with respect. I lovingly greet the comrades who are currently resisting in the battle positions. They represent the future of the Kurdish people and humanity, history is being written by them.

But our people and everyone should know this very well; we must never become complacent. Feeling content is betrayal for the Kurdish people, for us. We should neither forget nor be complacent. Complacency takes people away from reality. Nothing should make us become complacent. We are struggling in a period of the most severe processes. There are many opportunities and possibilities for us to achieve historical results, but there are also great dangers. Therefore, there should be faith, hope, morale and enthusiasm, but these should not be reasons for complacency or justification for throwing responsibilities at others. Everyone must play their part. Mothers, young people, women, children; some should revolt, some should pray, some should throw stones, everyone should do something. They should not just sit and watch, they should not say that our friends are resisting, and our work is going on. There is no doubt that the guerrillas are resisting, but everyone must resist and play their role.

The fact that the enemy has become so savage is because it has reached a breaking point. The enemy also feels that its end is coming, and because of this fear, it is becoming even more brutal. Wherever there is a Kurdish gain, it aims to destroy it. In the mountains of Kurdistan, attacks against the guerrilla continue uninterruptedly. The guerrillas respond to these attacks. Again, the Turkish state attacks the border villages of Rojava 24/7 to force the people to migrate. The people of Rojava have been paying the price for years. But they have seen days when they lived without an identity, and now they also saw the free life provided by the revolution created as a result of price and struggle. That is why the people of Rojava are resisting and will continue to resist against all attacks.

The Turkish state is drowning as a result of this wa. Its economy has collapsed.  Erdoğan seems so arrogant, but whoever he sees is begging for money, begging for weapons. Society is paying the bill. Remzi Kartal was talking about this in a television program recently. Some researchers estimate that the bill for the 40-year war against the PKK and the Kurdish people amounts to 3 trillion 600 billion dollars. With this money, Turkey would have grown 4 times more, become stronger, democratized and the welfare of life would have increased. But the people are now poor and hungry. Despite this, the Turkish state persists in the war. Erdoğan’s role is to wage war against the PKK. But he has reached the ending point. Their politics is blocked. For the first time in 50 years, our people and movement are in a position to utilize the opportunities very well and achieve historical results. The only condition is that everyone plays their role in this process.

Recently, MIT officials, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of Defense have visited Hewlêr [Erbil] and Baghdad. What is the purpose and frame of these meetings?

Everyone should know well that the main subject of the talks is the PKK. The Turkish state will make whatever concessions are necessary for this because it is looking for partners and friends. There is only one goal, only one conversation, and that is the PKK. They target Shengal and Rojava because the Kurds have gains there, but the main target is the guerrilla and the PKK. First, Ibrahim Kalin and then Yaşar Güler visited Baghdad. The Turkish state still has an Ottoman obsession. They say that Iraq “was a province of ours. How come they don’t do what we want”. They consider themselves superior. They have already occupied the territory of Iraq and South Kurdistan enough. They have placed their troops in dozens of posts and have a hand in all the problems in Iraq. Kirkuk, Şengal, Mosul, Turkmen, Sunni, ‘Kurdistan Democratic Party’ (KDP) etc. In other words, they want to adjust Iraq in every issue. They have assumed such a role and are asking for support for the war in Iraq and South Kurdistan. Of course, Iraq should not give support. Iraq also has problems and weaknesses, but it is a separate state and country. No state tramples on its honor and says to an occupying power, “Come in, occupy my territory, fight on my territory”.

We do not think that Iraq will carry out a dirty co-operation with the Turkish state at this point. Such a thing would not be right, nor would it be in Iraq’s interest. There is no reason for such a thing to happen according to the Kurdish people’s and the PKK’s perspective. But the Turkish state is seeking and endeavoring in this way. After Baghdad, they came to Hewlêr, the capital of South Kurdistan. They held talks with Massoud Barzani, Nechirvan Barzani and Masrour Barzani. The result of the talks was that they will continue their relations that they have had until today. These are not honorable or beneficial relations for the Kurds. They should not continue in the future.

I would like to say this to the Kurdish people, to the people of Hewlêr, to all those who are around the KDP; let’s look at it conscientiously. On the one hand, there is a state that does not accept the identity of the Kurdish people, that massacres and persecutes them every day, and on the other hand there is a Kurdish movement fighting for the freedom, identity and rights of the Kurdish people and for the democratization of Turkey. The people of South Kurdistan should say to the KDP, “What are you doing with the enemy of the Kurds, the Turkish state, you are doing wrong, the PKK is Kurdish, what harm has it done to us? You may have disagreements, but this is not a reason to fight against the PKK by uniting with the invaders”. They should say that this is not moral, this is not the right policy. Our people need to think about this.

I also say this for the KDP; look at history! The Turkish state is a state that executed its own ancestors. Erdoğan would even sell his father for power. The KDP also knows this, they need to be a little brave. They do not necessarily have to be friends with or support the PKK. Let’s leave this aside, but they should not join forces with the occupiers and fight against the PKK. This will gain them nothing. Let's remember 2017 when the referendum for an independent state was held. Wasn’t the Turkish state the first to mass its tanks on the border, pointing fingers, threatening? Without the PKK, they will not accept the autonomy in South Kurdistan either. They’re being forced. Our people must also take a stand against this. The KDP should give up this policy. The Turkish state is an occupying state. If they have schemes of breaking the resistance and destroying the PKK, the KDP should look at the past. For 50 years they could not do this. During the international conspiracy, everyone said, “This time it is over, the PKK is doomed,” but nothing like this has happened, nor will it happen. If you cannot obtain results, why do you insist? Talks mean the continuation of the war. Our demand is that the KDP should stay away from such policies.

The Turkish state uses the PKK as a justification, but was the PKK there in the Azerbaijan-Armenia war? In Syria, it uses the PKK as a justification as well, but the real aim is to occupy the whole of Syria. It wants to determine the future of Syria itself. It has placed thousands of gangs. What is the Turkish state doing in Libya? Wherever the Turkish state is, the problems are getting bigger, and it brings war there. It is the same in the whole of the Middle East. Middle Eastern society actually knows what kind of fabric the Turkish state is made of. They react against the Turkish state. But the reality of the powers is different. The Third World War in the Middle East started with the conspiracy. The Middle East will be democratized with the physical liberation of Rêber Apo, the resolution of the Kurdish question through democratic means and the democratization of Turkey. The only solutions to the problems in the Middle East are the concepts of ‘Democratic Nation’ and ‘Democratic Modernity’. This is the PKK and the paradigm of Rêber Apo. The PKK is effective in the Middle East at this point. If the Kurdish question is solved through these methods, the problems in the Middle East will also be solved. The KDP should also think and act in this way.