In an extensive interview with ANF, Mustafa Karasu, member of the KCK (Kurdistan Communities Union) Executive Council, talked in detail about the resistance and struggle for the physical freedom of the Kurdish People's Leader Abdullah Öcalan and the democratic solution to the Kurdish question.

We publish the first part of the in-depth interview below.

What is the basis and methods Abdullah Öcalan, the peoples leader, uses to carry out his relentless resistance against the international conspiracy that has been ongoing for 26 years?

The history of Rêber Apo’s (Leader Abdullah Öcalan) struggle and resistance under the conditions in Imrali is full of lessons. Striking examples of ideological and political genius can be observed there. There is a revolutionary who faced the greatest enmity of the 20th century and who wages an epic struggle against it. The Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom is represented in the most accurate and competent way there. Under the conditions of solitary confinement, he managed to add great value to the struggle for freedom and democracy of both the Kurdish people and all humanity. Rêber Apo’s life in Imrali is historic. He did not waste a single day and instead devoted himself to the question of the free and democratic life of the Kurdish people. This life is a life dedicated to all humanity.

From the very moment he was abducted, Rêber Apo started to search for ways of how to frustrate this conspiracy and focused on how to get through this process with the least damage to the freedom struggle. He did not panic, nor did he ever become pessimistic. As a leader of the peoples, he spends every second thinking about the free and democratic life of these peoples, regardless of the circumstances. He constantly focuses on how to frustrate the conspiracy with a strategical and tactical struggle. On February 15, 1999, when he was abducted from Kenya, his only thoughts were in this regard.

Rêber Apo is a leader who takes stock of each day, learns lessons from each development, and thus makes it a style to work and struggle even more. Having such a character and such an approach, he became a leader and grows in his work day by day. He considers a day in which he did not solve problems, did not overcome contradictions he encountered, or did not create a development, as a day that was not sufficiently used. He has made it a basic philosophy of life to fit full and productive work into every day. In this sense, he lives a reality that is unparalleled in the history of mankind. It is a reality that is based on a philosophy of struggle, of life.

From the very first moment of his captivity, Rêber Apo always asked himself the question ‘What to do?’ and based every single step he took on the answers he found that would bring him closer to the goal of frustrating the conspiracy and ensuring success. The environment created through the conspiracy was completely aimed at annihilation and liquidation. Rêber Apo therefore focused first and foremost on breaking through this environment in order to create a basis for struggle. From his captivity, he sent a message to those who were responsible for the conspiracy that it was now important for them to find a solution to the Kurdish question that was not based on coercion and did not arise from a complex. With this approach, Rêber Apo tried to win those forces to approach the solution of the Kurdish question positively. This was the first tactic of the struggle against the conspiracy. It can be said that it was a tactic developed by Rêber Apo according to the reality of the Turkish state at that time and the character of its rulers. Thus, the first attack of the international conspiracy, which was hysterically aimed at annihilation and liquidation, came to nothing. The first months of the conspiracy passed using this tactic.

With the dissolution of real socialism, Rêber Apo deeply evaluated the internal reasons that led to this. Undoubtedly, there were attacks by imperialist and capitalist powers, but the dissolution was seen mainly due to internal factors. Rêber Apo acted with the understanding that it is not possible to draw the right lessons and make corrections without recognizing that wrong and incomplete internal factors are also caused by deficiencies and inaccuracies in theory. He engaged in questioning, criticism, and self-criticism like no one else and did this without falling into the situation of giving up on socialism and becoming a leftist within the system. While criticizing real socialism and the theoretical and organizational line that created it, he strikingly expressed the purpose of his criticism by saying, “Insistence on socialism is insistence on humanity.”.

In its political report to the 5th Congress, the PKK concretely put forward its criticism of real socialism and the theoretical mistakes of Marxist leaders through the PKK’s new ideological, theoretical, organizational, and operational line. The 5th Congress of the PKK was taken as a congress of renewal and change in socialism. Rêber Apo is in the understanding of evolving this change step by step towards the paradigm he envisions. The conspiracy was also directed against Rêber Apo’s efforts to bring about this change and transformation in the PKK and the entire socialist movement. The conspirators, seeing that with these efforts of Rêber Apo, the PKK would overcome its shortcomings and become more effective in its struggle, aimed to prevent Rêber Apo from making the Kurdish people’s freedom struggle more effective on the basis of the new paradigm.

After his imprisonment, Rêber Apo accelerated his efforts for the ideological, theoretical, and organizational change he wanted to create. He believes that one of the reasons for the conspiracy to be possible was the deficiencies, inadequacies, and mistakes in the ideology, theory, and way of organization. On the other hand, he believes that as long as the imperialist and capitalist system, which is responsible for so much injustice in this world, is not held accountable, the struggle for freedom that the Kurdish people are waging cannot progress and succeed. Bringing the imperialist and capitalist system to book would also be taking revenge on the international conspiracy. In short, Rêber Apo acted with the understanding that without solving the problem of capitalism and its system, neither the Kurdish people’s nor humanity’s problem of freedom and democracy can be solved. Based on this understanding, Rêber Apo embarked on a phase of investigation and did not come to an agreement with the hegemonic forces. He did not allow his struggle to be liberalized, nor did he allow himself to be forced to kneel before them. Instead, he has immersed himself in the question of how he can wage a more intensive, more successful struggle against the hegemonic forces. When one examines Rêber Apo’s research and the line of struggle he exemplified on Imrali, one must evaluate these aspects correctly.

Rêber Apo had been socially connected since his childhood. Seen in this light, it was his social perspective and his corresponding search that ultimately led him to socialism. However, the understanding of socialism that he believes in and practiced has always included a deep sociality. He has always criticizes ideological, theoretical, organizational and practical understandings that do not respond to the sociality he thinks. In this respect, he had critical approaches even before the collapse of real socialism, and he made the understanding and approach to socialism that he found correct a part of his personality.

After the collapse of real socialism, he concretized these criticisms further. In order to struggle effectively and successfully against capitalism in captivity in Imrali, he addressed the inadequacies in ideology and theory more comprehensively and brought serious innovations to the understanding and theory of socialism. With his new understanding of socialism based on the free woman, ecology, and a democratic society, he attacked capitalism at its roots. With his analyses and the paradigm he put forward, he started a new era of struggle that would bring the end of capitalist modernity. This was also a true homage to Marx and Engels, who 150 years ago raised the flag of struggle against capitalism. If there is a worthy student and follower of Marx and Engels, it is Rêber Apo. To never criticize what Marx and Engels said and to express it exactly the same way today is not a correct form of commitment. Rêber Apo has brought socialism to the deepest and most comprehensive level in human history with great responsibility in order to make it successful and to prevent the situation of real socialism from ever happening again.

With his deepening in Imrali, Rêber Apo has not only saved the Kurdish people’s freedom struggle from obstruction and created a line for the right struggle and success, but he has also put the line of overcoming the obstacles in front of the freedom struggle by analyzing the capitalist modernist system and its policies in the Middle East. Because Rêber Apo understood very well with his decades of experience and knowledge that the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom cannot be successful without solving the Middle East and the world system. In short, if the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom is to be successful, it will be based on the solutions laid out by Rêber Apo. Rêber Apo has deciphered the codes of capitalist modernity, the reaction in the Middle East, the hegemonic powers, and the countries of the region that rule over the Kurds. On this basis, he paved the way for the success of the freedom struggle.

By putting forward the dimensions of democratic modernity against all dimensions of capitalist modernity, in other words, its alternatives, Rêber Apo has directly attacked not only the five thousand-year-old statist system and its last representative capitalist modernity, but also the root of the male-dominated system.

By revealing and exposing the entire reality of the male-dominated statist system and by refuting all its ideological, theoretical, and moral foundations, he has started a period that will bring about its downfall. After the paradigm put forward by Rêber Apo, it is difficult for states, the capitalist system, is already certain that this determination will be realized. and the male-dominated system to survive for a long time. Rêber Apo has said that the 21st century will be the century of women. And it is already certain that this determination will be realized. Since all forms of domination and exploitation are based on the domination and exploitation of women, the 21st century will also be the century in which the end of the statist system and capitalist modernity is approaching. Rêber Apo wages such a historic struggle against the capitalist modernist forces leading the international conspiracy. In this way, he held to account those who established the Middle Eastern order based on the genocide of Kurds in the 20th century. By analyzing the situation in the Middle East as well as in the Turkish state in detail, and by adapting the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom and his own analyses accordingly and thus making them more influential, Rêber Apo has launched a great struggle against the occupying Turkish state and all the forces that play a role in the international conspiracy.

Although the pressures and attacks of the Turkish state are intense, the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom has become more comprehensive and deeper in all four parts of Kurdistan. Today, the Kurdish question has become a more visible political and social question in northern Kurdistan and Turkey; even more so, it has become a regional and international question. In this respect, the 26-year struggle in Imrali has frustrated the aims of the conspirators, and even though Rêber Apo is still held captive, the international conspiracy has lost and Rêber Apo has won.

The global campaign ‘Freedom for Abdullah Öcalan, a Political Solution to the Kurdish Question’ has entered its second year. Looking at the results of the first year of its struggle, what is to be expected from the campaign in this upcoming year?

Launched on October 10 by international friends of the Kurdish people, the global freedom campaign has been generally successful so far. It was especially strong internationally. Thus, the grounds for expanding this campaign globally have become very strong. If this ground is utilized well, this campaign will gain momentum and grow globally. If comprehensive and good planning is done in this regard, a giant step will be taken in 2025 for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. The first year has shown that such strong potential exists. In particular, the more Rêber Apo’s paradigm is discovered by the people, the more the campaign is growing exponentially. It is not only about the freedom of a people and its leader. Embracing Rêber Apo’s paradigm is the most fundamental factor that enables this campaign to grow. One has to see how effective the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom and the struggle to liberate Rêber Apo can be when it is equipped with a strong ideology. More effective and concrete results can be achieved by strengthening the ideological and intellectual dimension of this campaign.

The women’s movements of the world in particular will support this campaign more strongly in its second year. As Rêber Apo’s ecological approach becomes known, ecological movements, like women’s movements, will become an important force in this campaign. At a time when capitalist modernity has brought humanity to a dead end, the non-state model of democratic confederalism, the women’s liberation line, and the ecological approach will affect entire humanity. This will add great strength to the struggle for the freedom of Rêber Apo and a democratic solution to the Kurdish question.

In short, the second year of the global campaign will be a year in which the women’s movement will take the lead, intellectuals who form the conscience of the peoples will participate more, and ecologists and laborers will see this campaign not only as a campaign of support and solidarity but as their own struggle for freedom and democracy. The first year of the campaign pushed institutions such as the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe to take certain steps. In the second year, this will intensify. It will lead to results that will push the states to take steps. Undoubtedly, this will be due to the democratic public opinion created by the campaign.

While the struggle against the international conspiracy is, above all through the global campaign, being waged all around the world, a very intense struggle is also going on in Kurdistan. When it comes to Kurdistan, particularly the North stands out. On October 13th, an important demonstration against the conspiracy was held in Amed (tr. Diyarbakir), despite its ban by the Turkish state. How do you evaluate this?

When it comes to Kurdistan in general, the struggle in northern Kurdistan always stands out. It is northern Kurdistan that has been influencing and determining the struggle in all parts of Kurdistan for 50 years. Northern Kurdistan has always been a pioneer in the struggle for the freedom of the Kurdish people and the embrace of Rêber Apo. Northern Kurdistan has been participating in the campaign launched by our international friends on October 10 with important actions and struggles. In the second year of the campaign, the struggle in northern Kurdistan and Turkey will be even more powerful and effective. The actions and struggle in the first year have shown that northern Kurdistan is capable of waging a bigger struggle. Even though the state aimed to prevent further participation by imposing bans, our people overcame the obstacles and made their voices heard. It should be known that the higher and more effective the struggle in northern Kurdistan, the more it affects all parts of Kurdistan and abroad. The struggle in northern Kurdistan gives great momentum to the struggle everywhere. 50 years of struggle have shown this reality. The October 13th rally is a beginning. It is also an important measure of how the second year of the campaign will develop in northern Kurdistan, in all of Kurdistan, and abroad. The campaign for physical freedom for Rêber Apo and a political solution for Kurdistan must be continued with rich methods. The Kurdish people, especially the youth and women, can raise the struggle through many methods. It is important not to be limited to one or two methods of struggle. The youth, women, and all our people should know that the stronger the participation in the protests, the greater the impact. The Kurdish people are the people of Newroz and serhildan (Kurdish word for popular uprising). In this respect, it cannot be said that actions with high participation cannot be organized. When the youth, women, and people are touched, when organizing is seen as the most fundamental task, these people of Serhildan are capable of demonstrating this everywhere.

In the first year of the campaign, both Rojava and Europe played a crucial role. In fact, both have always stood up and fought when it comes to Rêber Apo. We saw this reality once again in the first year of the campaign. When the international conspiracy against Rêber Apo was realized, our people in Rojava and Europe stood up and strongly showed their reaction against it. They showed an exemplary attitude in this regard. For this reason, Rêber Apo expressed his special gratitude to the people of Rojava and our people in Europe in his prison writings. In the second year of the campaign, the peoples of Europe, Rojava, and North and East Syria will again participate in the struggle to free Rêber Apo at the highest level.

The fascist Turkish state’s attacks to occupy Kurdistan continue uninterruptedly. One of the centers of these attacks are the Medya Defense Zones (Areas on the border between North, South and East Kurdistan/South-East Turkey, North Iraq and West Iran, that are under the control of the Kurdish freedom guerrillas). By collaborating with the KDP, the Turkish state wants to push the agreement with the Iraqi government to its maximum. At this point, what has been revealed by the war?

For more than four years, the Turkish state has been conducting an intense attack on the Medya Defense Zones with all the means of war, banned weapons, and internal and external support. At the moment, the Israeli attacks are on the agenda. Every day, the Turkish state attacks more than Israel’s attacks on Gaza or Lebanon, bombing the entire area and using banned weapons. It bombs the tunnels, which have become the guerrillas' bases of resistance, around the clock. It is trying to neutralize the coordinated tactic of team-tunnel warfare by the guerrillas through bombings with all kinds of weapons, poisonous gases, and other banned weapons. For more than four years, the new warfare of the guerrillas with the tactic of coordinated tunnels and mobile teams has been a thorn in the side of the Turkish army. In these four years, the Turkish state has used perhaps a hundred times more bombs than the US used in all its years in Vietnam. Dozens of UCAV’s are constantly hovering over the Medya Defense Zones. The guerrillas are fighting against the Turkish army, which is constantly under the protection of dozens of drones. This resistance will go down in the history of warfare as an example of sacrifice at its peak. We can say that the war being fought every day and in every tunnel is historic. There is a group of sacrificial guerrillas who march on the enemy with great enthusiasm, as if they were going to a feast. People that resist like this and wage a sacrificial war like this are people that have achieved freedom. Now the history of this freedom is being written. No matter what difficulties are experienced, no matter what price is paid, the result of this history is the freedom of the Kurdish people.

While the war intensifies in the Medya Defense Zones, also in northern Kurdistan, both the military operations of the Turkish state and the resistance of the guerrillas against it are continuing. In 2024, dozens of guerrilla actions took place in northern Kurdistan, in which many soldiers and police officers were killed or wounded. However, the Turkish state has a policy of not publicizing its losses in northern Kurdistan. At the same time, in 2024, dozens of guerrillas were martyred in the struggle in northern Kurdistan.

The Turkish state and the anti-Kurdish forces have realized that the freedom struggle is standing firm despite all kinds of attacks. It is not possible to dissuade these people from their struggle for freedom. No matter how much they persecute the Kurdish people and make them pay a high price, these people will continue their struggle until they achieve their freedom. The Turkish state must have understood this; if not, it will wallow in a dead end that will end itself.

The Iraqi government has committed a great crime by making an agreement with the Turkish state. For 50 years, the Kurdish freedom struggle has fought only for the freedom of its people. It has never fought against any country or political power in the region based on any foreign power. It has always had good relations with the governments formed after the intervention in Iraq. The Kurdish freedom movement has fought the most intense struggle against ISIS, the biggest threat Iraq has faced in the last 20 years. For this reason, both Iraqi prime ministers during the war against ISIS thanked the PKK leadership. If it were not for the PKK’s struggle against ISIS, there would be neither the Iraqi government nor the southern Kurdistan administration. The administration of southern Kurdistan had also thanked the guerrillas for this. Apart from the current prime minister and a handful of people who played a role in this agreement, the members of the Iraqi government and political forces have realized that the agreement with the Turkish state was a historical mistake. An Iraqi government that has come to an agreement with the Turkish state against the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom has no future. A government that has lost its moral, conscientious, and moral values will not last long. In fact, our resistance reveals their reality as well. They are falling into the situation of a government that has lost its social support. In short, that agreement is an agreement that the Iraqi people do not accept.

Turkish state officials had been saying, “This summer we will end the resistance; the PKK will end.” Now they are afraid of the blow they themselves will receive in the fall and winter. They live every day with the fear of how far away that summer is, just like their soldiers are counting the days until they are released. As for the KDP, it has already finished itself with the betrayal it committed in this four-year war. It has turned into a political corpse with no moral value and no political legitimacy. Even if it lives with the support of foreign powers, it is just a living corpse.

What would you like to say about the elections that are to be held in southern Kurdistan in this environment in which the occupation attacks continue?

The KDP will go into the elections as a political corpse solely being held by crutches. The KDP has nothing to offer the people. As far as we observe, it is trying to carry out the special war that the AKP-MHP government practiced in the elections in Turkey under the conditions of southern Kurdistan. It is clear that there will be no fair elections in the areas where the KDP dominates. Just as state officials in northern Kurdistan go to the villages and say, “If there are no votes for the AKP here, we will hold you to account,” the KDP has such pressure on the villages and neighborhoods. Villages and neighborhoods are under threat, blackmail, and pressure from the KDP. However, even if the KDP tries to get votes in this election through pressure and buying some people, it will fall even further behind the previous election. In the previous election, it did not even get the votes of 15 percent of the people of southern Kurdistan.

In this election, the people must go to the polls and punish the KDP for paving the way to the mountains, plains, and cities of southern Kurdistan for the Turkish Republic. For this, the people of southern Kurdistan should go to the polls and vote for patriotic candidates who are against this treason. It is about burying the betrayal that supports the Kurdish enemy, which has opened Kurdistan to occupation and genocide. The KDP is blurring patriotism with collaborationism and treason in Kurdistan. This is the biggest danger for the Kurdish people. Therefore, this election must clarify patriotism and treason. This is what we have to say about this election.